Is there such thing as "luck" in chess?

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AGC-Gambit_YT
Optimissed wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

"Unpleasantness" Bro, it's their opinion, I like the way you challenge it, but doing it to lots of people is a bit much, but now that you bring it up that it's disturbing to you, that's kind of one-sided, it's their opinion, you can change their view, but you can't call someone unpleasant because of what they think (unless it's rather gross) but this is no exception.

Also this is a tad unrelated, Optimissed, did you see my other comments on page 239?

Nope, they hurt more people than you realize. It is not about their opinions but about the way they break the rules here to attack the opinions of others. They can't hurt me but they hurt a lot of others and I get a lot of messages telling me that. I tell them to use the report feature but in reality the mods are incapable of sorting this out because it's a mess created by c.c itself.

"attack the opinions of others" If you count yourself that's true. Who's gotten hurt by this? They're only objecting you because you started it, and if they send hateful messages towards you out of spite and not for the mistakes you're doing, then yes I agree, but besides that you don't need to say "I don't agree" to every post bro.

You're asserting your opinions without supporting arguments or any kind of evidence. A lot of rubbish is being talked here but you're quite right, I don't need to. This isn't some philosophy group on facebook. By and large it's a bunch of kids who assert their opinions without trying to give them any thought, bro.

So you're absolutely right and I shouldn't be arguing with them. So OK, I'll leave you and them alone and let Dio and playerafar mess with your minds. You won't stand a chance. Bye.

I never interacted with Dio and playerafar, also most opinions don't have evidence, that's why it's called an opinion. I supported arguments such as the one at the top of page 240, duh. Also an opinion doesn't need evidence, that includes my opinion too. Also, how do you that it's "only" kids posting btw?

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

@Optimissed

Lol, I was looking at the other pages in this forum, you legit have beef with everyone.

You mean with about four or five people who cause most of the unpleasantess here. Tell the truth.

No. You eventually have beef with anyone that does not think you are the smartest person in the room. You have turned on admirers many times in the past when they dared to divert from your way of thinking.

Your favorite quote in that circumstance is a variant of "I thought you had potential, but now I see that you are a/an [some insulting word or phrase impliying low IQ and gullibility]...".

LucasCaterpy

Someone can mouse slip. I thing you start with 0.3 advantage if you are white

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Nope, they hurt more people than you realise. It is not about their opinions but about the way they break the rules here to attack the opinions of others. They can't hurt me but they hurt a lot of others and I get a lot of messages telling me that. I tell them to use the report feature but in reality the mods are incapable of sorting this out because it's a mess created by c.c itself.

Produce them...enough to prove "lots of them". Or admit that you routinely use this "I have an invisible army of people that support me" tactic to prop up your poor reasoning.

AGC-Gambit_YT

You yelling at me, or Optimissed?

AGC-Gambit_YT

No he's saying that you're "mean" and of course there are more mean people on Chess.com bruh.

DiogenesDue
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

You yelling at me, or Optimissed?

I always (or so close as to not matter) quote who I am replying to.

I'm definitely not yelling at you. I'm actually impressed by how quickly you see right through Optimissed. Carry on.

AGC-Gambit_YT
DiogenesDue wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

You yelling at me, or Optimissed?

I always (or so close as to not matter) quote who I am replying to.

I'm definitely not yelling at you. I'm actually impressed by how quickly you see right through Optimissed. Carry on.

Lol, I was suspecting, but I was confused, because some threads have multiple names in them. Like this one, it has my name twice and yours once, it's confusing that's all. Thx for clarifying.

playerafar
OctopusOnSteroids wrote:
playerafar wrote:

Any such thing as Luck in chess?
Yes - but depends on definitions of luck and also views of things in general.
Randomness versus order. Pre-determination. Random pre-determination.
Pre-determination by design. No total control.
Views vary greatly on such things.

What is this mumble jumble about depends on definition, this view, that view? No it doesn't. We rigorously analyse the definitions and views on luck and find out which one logically fits chess in respect to other games and events where we agree luck exists. There is no luck in chess because the game is simply deterministic and the rules dont allow luck anyhow. Outcomes are determined by strictly skill. A meteor can strike during the game but thats not a part of chess. That means luck happened in life during a game of chess. The chess game doesnt get finished according to the rules.

Also can we stick to the topic? All this nonsense, O-person this, that. Youre not any better are you, with personal attacks that take space from real conversation here on a chess forum.

Looks like somebody wants to decide for somebody else and insist that his definition is to be the one. Octopus.
And also - to apply a double standard.
And to suggest that a particular person is not to be talked back to.
I don't think Octopus is going to shut up anybody here.
He seems to think that a particular person can make accusations and claims and that that person is to not be talked back to.
But both of them can be talked back to.
My comments about views and definitions are relevant to the forum topic.
And it was not I who brought up ping pong and tennis.
How fragile and delicate does a person have to be though - to worry and be angry that such subjects were brought up? Very. Mention of other sports bothers somebody?

playerafar
mpaetz wrote:
OctopusOnSteroids wrote:
playerafar wrote:

Any such thing as Luck in chess?
Yes - but depends on definitions of luck and also views of things in general.
Randomness versus order. Pre-determination. Random pre-determination.
Pre-determination by design. No total control.
Views vary greatly on such things.

What is this mumble jumble about depends on definition, this view, that view? No it doesn't. We rigorously analyse the definitions and views on luck and find out which one logically fits chess in respect to other games and events where we agree luck exists. There is no luck in chess because the game is simply deterministic and the rules dont allow luck anyhow. Outcomes are determined by strictly skill. A meteor can strike during the game but thats not a part of chess. That means luck happened in life during a game of chess. The chess game doesnt get finished according to the rules.

So your idea is that if we all accept your definitions of "luck" and "chess" the question will be easily answered? The precise nature and parameters of these terms is the crux of the disagreements here.

If we go by the original English definition of "luck" (taken from Old Dutch) that it is financial gain, then there obviously IS luck in chess--notice there are prizes in tournaments, masters charging for lessons, etc. And if we consider "chess" to be two players having a contest, then a heart attack causing one player to lose on time does mean luck determined the outcome of that game.

Thank you.
Fate and chance and randomness are everywhere. And luck.
But so is design and determination.
Its not a binary either or. And that's obvious.
What happens all the time are variations on how much something was luck or fate or coincidence and how much it wasn't. Related: negligence.
Mixtures of the two. Also everywhere.
And people often concern themselves with that. Rightly.

DrOutplay_07

Yes u can say when u r opponent in time trouble then instead of loosing position u can win .

DesignerWaffle
Maybe you would be lucky if you got a weak opponent.
playerafar
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Nope, they hurt more people than you realise. It is not about their opinions but about the way they break the rules here to attack the opinions of others. They can't hurt me but they hurt a lot of others and I get a lot of messages telling me that. I tell them to use the report feature but in reality the mods are incapable of sorting this out because it's a mess created by c.c itself.

Produce them...enough to prove "lots of them". Or admit that you routinely use this "I have an invisible army of people that support me" tactic to prop up your poor reasining.

Well, I do. They're invisible because anyone with any sense doesn't answer or get involved with trolls. I obviously have no sense.

As for "poor reasoning", don't you mean "disagreeing with you"? You would not be able to distinguish reason from a bucket of frogs.

And we had Octopus 'complaining' about 'personal attack'.
Anyway - O insulting Dio is O's way of complaining that Dio always prevails.

AGC-Gambit_YT

Playerafar did we just reply to the same thread? I wrote something like that yesterday, but that thread was smaller.

Tanisha_M123

I dont think so that there is a thing as 'luck' in chess, cuz this is a game about skill.

AGC-Gambit_YT

Also this beef is crazy.

AGC-Gambit_YT

@TanishaM123 Ye, that’s what everyone says

AGC-Gambit_YT

@playerafar Speaking of being invisible, Notice me like Optimissed does!

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Well, I do. They're invisible because anyone with any sense doesn't answer or get involved with trolls. I obviously have no sense.

As for "poor reasoning", don't you mean "disagreeing with you"? You would not be able to distinguish reason from a bucket of frogs.

Remove the trolls and people off their meds. Who's left? Pam? Is that it? Because that is the only sane poster who has ever supported you (not your positions when they happen to coincide...you) in all your years here.

OctopusOnSteroids

Here we go again talking about people's medication, who has more supporters etc, it's funny but getting old really.

@playerafar

"Looks like somebody wants to decide for somebody else and insist that his definition is to be the one. Octopus."

I don't insist on any definition. I said in the post you quoted we can rigorously analyse the definitions and compare use cases in similar context, for example other games. That way it will be clear which definition is accurate. There are plenty of examples of universally accepted randomness and luck like rolling the dice. Don't see any of those in chess do we.