it is cheating if play with bord?

OK, can we all pick on Olympian256 now?  I'm tired of defending my view; maybe it's not even technically against the rules.  Where's Erik when you need him?

I agree, but having a real board set up is not assistance.  Assistance is help.  No one or nothing is helping you choose your chess moves.  This is a standard rule on all chess servers.  Your interpretation of the rule is incorrect here.

I would imagine playing out lots of variations on a real board would assist me a great deal in live chess in the same way that I use the analysis board often for online chess.  For blindfold chess geniuses who can visualise all the variations many moves deep in their head then no, it wouldn't be much assistance!

I agree and I specifically mentioned not doing that in my previous post that he replied to.

I use a board for live games too. At first I was doing something that I realized gave me an unfair advantage; I moved the piece on my physical board BEFORE moving the piece in the game. I caught myself once changing my move after moving the physical piece.

So, now, I don't move the physical piece until AFTER I have moved my computer piece.

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

according to article 12.3a, the use of another board to analyze a game during play is considered cheating. it is a form of outside help. therefore it is cheating due to the rule against outside help on live chess.

end of story.

p.s. we know they were wrong because some one proved they were. which side of this argument is bringing proof?

i would like to add, it is perfectly legal to eat, drink, etc. in OTB tournaments, as long as you don't do so in a disruptive manner. you could even ask an arbiter if it would be possible to have the heater turned on if you felt it was too cold in a room where the tournament was taking place. if enough people had made the same complaint, guess what? they would turn on the heater!

g-man 15 - That would be a VERY broad interpretation of analyzing on an other board.

And actually, it says another "board". Since the board next to my desk is the only "board" I am not using "another" board, just one.

I get WHY they considered it cheating, I just don't get the actual analogy.
Well it can be argued that it's giving an advantage compared to mental visualisation, it's also true that it's not outside help.
There is no one to tell you what moves to make. No engine, no human, no books.
It's still you and you only that makes the move. The physical board only helps with visualisation, there's no one hiding inside it, it's not giving you any tips or hints about the position.
The ice is thinner than ever.

@rsava, the board on the computer is considered the board on which you are playing in live. the physical board would therefore be outside assistance.

@GnrfFrtzl, it is an advantage which the other player does not nessacerally have. i for example currently lack a physical board of my own (sad i know). there may be players on live that simply cannot get a physical board, making the fact that you use one inately unfair.

I do not know what chess.com's rules exactly state, but I obey by the OTB rules. Those forbid to play out variations on a side board - part of the game is precisely to think them through in your head.

I do not see evil in allowing a side board if the rules are clear on that point for both players, though. It's just a slightly different game then.

No.

The rules consider it cheating, I don't argue with that.
I'm arguing that if it's even cheating if there's no actual outside information.

It gives an unfair advantage, therefore it is cheating I would think, since that is usually the definition of cheating.

thanks all to views and opinion... i don't play the variation is just for a couple of motif, such as stressed eyes, mental dificulties of vizualization and so on...

Looking at the screen for more than an hour can give you sore eyes. Using a real board is a relief.

Moving the pieces...Well, I think as you become a stronger player, it's no longer necessary, because you waste too much time moving the pieces around, and you go much faster moving the pieces with your eyes. Correspondence chess is a different case, since the games are not timed. Take for example  Danny Rensch's videos or game analysis: he will tell you something like: "then if I move my queen to d2, then pawn takes, takes, Bishop to g1, castle, and white is much better." It would take him a lot longer if he moved the pieces.

OTB and online for actual physical play.  But don't make premoves or don't let go of your piece like in real tournaments.  If you are making verification moves and such, I believe that is cheating in Live games.  Put it this way, if one player is at an advantage due to making verification moves and not the other, its cheating.  If both have the luxury and are in agreement, then its a level playing field.

I only read page one.

I think the rules must be changed, if you are not allowed to testmove on a board when playing livechess.

Because it is not possible to control, and all should have equal rights to tools.

I would never use such board, because my goal is to improve otb, for that reason I need to train my brain to visualize without bordmovingassitance.

Not if you don't tell anyone about it. BUT ITS TOO LATE NOW!!!  

Impossible to enforce in internet chess.

Besides:

https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/articles/1444774-what-are-the-rules-for-playing-

Nothing states that you may not use a board. And ignore the trolls who say it is illegal, especially the ones who compare it with otb games.