King's Indian: How to keep fianchettoed bishop?

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KenBrace

I've recently started playing the King's Indian against d4 but I've run into an interesting problem. I can't find a way to stop white from forcing a trade with my fianchettoed bishop. The game usually goes something like this...

 



So how exactly do I stop this? According to Stockfish I should simply develop my pieces and allow white to trade bishops. It seems to like the gain in tempo. But computer engines don't neccessarily see long term positional advantages. That's why they aren't that great for (early) opening theory. But maybe Stockfish is right. Should I welcome the bishop trade and use the extra tempo to develop my pieces and take control of the center. How should I play against this sort of opening?

 



ych22

Re8 will preserve the DSB because it can retreat to h8. In lines where White is hinting at queenside castling and then kingside pawn storming, Black's DSB is a key defender of his kingside and is equally important at exerting pressure at the open centre and White queenside. Stockfish doesn't care about giving it up because primitive pawnstorms can be defended with accurate defence. Whether you choose to keep the bishop, d5 is the solid move that gains space since White didn't play e4 or c4. d6 preparing c5 or e5, which are thematic equalising moves in KID structures striking at the White centre isn't as good because White only has a single pawn in the centre. Moreover, opening the center when White rook is coming to d1 to oppose the Black queen is just asking begging to be destroyed. As a relatively low rated player seeking to improve, you should play the symmetrical defences like the QGD and focus on the fundamentals such as developing pieces and not hanging pieces. Just my humble opinion.

KenBrace

Thanks for the tips @ych22!

I think I may have found a good way to defend against this.

AutisticCath

5. ... Ne4 is completely flawed for keeping fiancettoed bishop--white can play Qc1 and after castling on king-side, force bishop exchange.

ych22
newengland7 wrote:

5. ... Ne4 is completely flawed for keeping fiancettoed bishop--white can play Qc1 and after castling on king-side, force bishop exchange.

I never use computers for analysis, but opening databases don't have this particular line. So correct me if I'm wrong.

After 6. Qc1 0-0 7. Bh6, White may have indeed forced the exchange of DSBs. But after 7.. c5, Black is definitely better based on his better development and the misplaced White queen.

Emperor_Disco

Actually that is not the Kings Indian.

KenBrace
newengland7 wrote:

5. ... Ne4 is completely flawed for keeping fiancettoed bishop--white can play Qc1 and after castling on king-side, force bishop exchange.

White can force the exchange but black still seems comes through alright.

 
 
 




AutisticCath

Emperor_Disco, actually it is a king's Indian. White is not required to play c4 in the King's Indian defense. I use the Torre attack against king's Indian players from time to time and it is generally recorded in the engine as a Torre attack variant of the King's Indian.

ych22, I was not using an engine. OP's question was on how to keep his fiancettoed bishop. I am merely pointing out that if he wants to keep his fiancettoed bishop, Ne4 does not do the trick.

Emperor_Disco
newengland7 wrote:

Emperor_Disco, actually it is a king's Indian. White is not required to play c4 in the King's Indian defense. I use the Torre attack against king's Indian players from time to time and it is generally recorded in the engine as a Torre attack variant of the King's Indian.

ych22, I was not using an engine. OP's question was on how to keep his fiancettoed bishop. I am merely pointing out that if he wants to keep his fiancettoed bishop, Ne4 does not do the trick.

You got it all wrong.The Torre attack is characterized by Bg5,not Bf4.The opening above could be called "Queen's pawn",or some kind of London/Veresov hybrid.King's Indian,it is not.

mcostan

tag for interests

D-mate19
What I try to do is, if I suspect that my opponent is going to attack h6, I do h6 before castling, so when I castle, kh7 can protect it. If not, I try to attack aggressively on his kingside to fight back
D-mate19
I only know the Kings Indian as an opening for white. I do know this: after nf3, it is the reti. It continues as the reti with 2. C4. It becomes the Kings Indian with 3.g3 4.bg3. Not sure if it works for black
AutisticCath

It's called a Neo-King's Indian London System variant. I put the first few moves of game through my Arena chess program which spouts the opening that is being used in the given game.

Emperor_Disco, Slander! I never said THIS was a Torre attack, King's Indian variant (of which the Torre attack itself has numerous variations), I said this was a King's Indian variant. You said it was not. According to my computer program which I have just run the lines through this a Neo-King's Indian London system variant. Note that the London system is a SYSTEM generally used by anti-King's Indian players against it however anti-lines do not necessarily void the general opening. The Canal attack in the Sicilian is considered an anti-Sicilian line however it is still a Sicilian variant.

d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4. Bf4 Bg7 5. e3 O-O 6. Be2 Barry Attack (source: wiki)

I'm actually going to have to agree with Emperor_Disco and my Arena chess program over the IM here. This is definitely a London system variant (where I disagree with Emperor_Disco is that this is also a Neo-King's Indian).

However, I agree with the IM that e4 is superior move against Neo-King's Indian defenses--I've played it here:



AutisticCath

I'm also including this link: King's Indian London system:

http://www.365chess.com/eco/A48_King's_Indian_London_system

ToothlessTigerTim

Is the game named after some Indian thing because it has the name Indian in it.

blueemu
ToothlessTigerTim wrote:

Is the game named after some Indian thing because it has the name Indian in it.

In the Indian version of chess (chaturanga) the Pawns could only move one square. So moves like g3 followed by Bg2, or b3 followed by Bb2, were common ways to develop the Bishops.