What's wrong with bad habits?
Learning bad habits with the tactics trainer
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The tactic stops because it assumes you see a decisive follow up (of which there are probably a good number). I think that if white plays 4. e4+ (after the forced 3... Kf5) there's no real defense of any kind for black and white just wins, but there are probably other good ideas, too - the main point is that white has what looks like a winning initiative and the TT assumes that you can play the position comfortably from that point. It's somewhat speculative and I'll admit I haven't really calculated it out, but what's wrong with that? You can't expect automatic material gain or checkmate every time you sacrifice... if so, why would it be called a sacrifice?!
Eviator wrote:
"...without concrete calculation..."
The nine static diagrams drawn from actual GM games in combinations books build the good habit of concrete calculation. You have to go to the back of the book to see if your concrete calculation moves match the correct answer(s). There is no clicking a button and moving the pieces around on the diagramed position. When you are at the board in a tournament game there is no button to click to move the pieces around on the board. In fact if you do, the TD will forfeit you.
The tactic trainer is about recognizing patterns, not concrete calculations, you should be able recognize that the King will be driven out into the open where mate will be inevitable. Surely you have enough self-control that you will use the most efficient speed in an actual game. If not, try sitting on your hands in an actual game. And yes there are times in actual games where you don't have time to accurately calculate a sacrifice and have to recognize a pattern. I also might add that the most valuable benefit of tactical vision is judging if your own candidate move is safe. If you recognize that it sets up a sacrifice you want to quickly eliminate that candidate move and move on without wasting time on calculations.
First you recognize the pattern. Then you do the concrete calculation and double check it. All the while sitting on your hands. Only when you are sure of the first move do you release your hand to write the move on your score sheet. Then you compare what you have written with the intended move. If it matches up, only then does your hand move to the designated piece on the board to execute the move.
Apr 21, 2012
0
#7
blake78613 wrote:
The tactic trainer is about recognizing patterns, not concrete calculations, you should be able recognize that the King will be driven out into the open where mate will be inevitable.
Is it inevitable? Maybe if you are Crafty. Maybe if you can calculate the best moves for both sides for another 10 moves. But for the rest of us, we can't see a clear decisive advantage, and we're down material. After reaching this position (or a couple more moves) in our in-brain analysis, we'll not see a good follow up and then consider the sacrifice unfounded. This is certainly not the only TT problem I've seen that ended this way, and the positional advantage isn't always so clear as a wide-open king.
Yeah I saw the pattern and made the right moves. So I suppose the earned the points. But I can tell you that in a real game I can't imagine sacrificing without seeing the clear follow-up. Or will this mentality limit my ability? Would good class players make the sacrifice if they didn't see the concrete follow up?
Apr 21, 2012
0
#8
Bleh, let's all go back to the old days of puzzle-book addicts with so much analysis at the back of the books it takes hour for you to finish.
Eviator wrote:
Is it inevitable? Maybe if you are Crafty. Maybe if you can calculate the best moves for both sides for another 10 moves. But for the rest of us, we can't see a clear decisive advantage, and we're down material. After reaching this position (or a couple more moves) in our in-brain analysis, we'll not see a good follow up and then consider the sacrifice unfounded. This is certainly not the only TT problem I've seen that ended this way, and the positional advantage isn't always so clear as a wide-open king.
Yeah I saw the pattern and made the right moves. So I suppose the earned the points. But I can tell you that in a real game I can't imagine sacrificing without seeing the clear follow-up. Or will this mentality limit my ability? Would good class players make the sacrifice if they didn't see the concrete follow up?
Yes, many good class players will make a sacrifice if they don't see the concrete follow up. Kasparov for instance thrived on chaos. Tal certainly relied upon his intuition. Michail Tal told the story of how he was contemplating a sacrifice, and his mind drifted off on how to hoist a hippopotamus from a swamp. Forty-five minutes later his mind went back to the chess board and he realized that it was the type of sacrifice that couldn't be accurately calculated and he had to rely on his judgement. He made the sacrifice and won, and was amused to find in the paper the next day that he has spent forty-five minutes accurately calculating the move.
This what Rudolf Spielmann stated in his classic book The Art of Sacrifice in Chess: "In real sacrifices the player gives up material, but is unable to calculate the consequences with accuracy; he has to rely on his judgment. He obtains dynamic advantages, which he can realize gradually. Should he not succeed in this, he will most probably lose the game through deficiency in material. Therein lies the risk, and risk is the hallmark of the real sacrifice."
Your problem is more psychological than analytical. You should take the plunge in off-hand games and try it. You will have both successes and failures. You might well like it.
Apr 24, 2012
0
#10
blake78613 wrote:
Yes, many good class players will make a sacrifice if they don't see the concrete follow up. Kasparov for instance thrived on chaos. Tal certainly relied upon his intuition. Michail Tal told the story of how he was contemplating a sacrifice, and his mind drifted off on how to hoist a hippopotamus from a swamp. Forty-five minutes later his mind went back to the chess board and he realized that it was the type of sacrifice that couldn't be accurately calculated and he had to rely on his judgement. He made the sacrifice and won, and was amused to find in the paper the next day that he has spent forty-five minutes accurately calculating the move.
This what Rudolf Spielmann stated in his classic book The Art of Sacrifice in Chess: "In real sacrifices the player gives up material, but is unable to calculate the consequences with accuracy; he has to rely on his judgment. He obtains dynamic advantages, which he can realize gradually. Should he not succeed in this, he will most probably lose the game through deficiency in material. Therein lies the risk, and risk is the hallmark of the real sacrifice."
Your problem is more psychological than analytical. You should take the plunge in off-hand games and try it. You will have both successes and failures. You might well like it.
Very enlightening...thank you!
Check out this problem.
http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=23958
The correct solution has you sacrificing a piece so that you chase the king around and a pawn. There is no other concrete material to win. For a expert or master, there may be compensation, but for many of us we're not going to be able to take advantage of the weakened king position.
Consider how most people solved this. They saw the knight sacrifice and the danger along the a1-h8 diagonal. They played Nf6 without any concrete advantage in mind. This problem reinforced that we should make such sacrifices without conrete calculation, especially when you consider the time control. Yet you will find no video or article on this site that advocates such a foolish method of playing.
It is for this reason that I believe that, while TT may be vast and provide variety, it is inferior to concrete tactics training, such as combination books. There may be a way to label TT problems with concrete solutions...I'm sure there other useful suggestions in these forums. I, however, will probably stop using it until such changes are made, because I don't want it teaching me bad habits.