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ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:

Talk about making the analogy more complicated!

But what about the representation for "#1"? In my example, the system had three-variables. How would you put that into your example?

I was considering "time", but that would turn your equation in an integral and would work against your chosen variables as well.


Sorry, I have a bad habit of complicating things....

In my example, X,Y,Z are vectors with

#1 = X

#2 = Y

#3 = Z

So my linear combination my would be aX + bY + cZ where a=0.

ColdCoffee

Or maybe a should not be zero.... now I am comfused.... cause I did not mean to rule out self study....

Oh well! Never claimed to be good at Math! Wink

chessroboto
ColdCoffee wrote:
chessroboto wrote:

Talk about making the analogy more complicated!

Sorry, I have a bad habit of complicating things....

In my example, X,Y,Z are vectors with

#1 = X

#2 = Y

#3 = Z

So my linear combination my would be aX + bY + cZ where a=0.


That makes sense to me now. I should have imagined that you would stretch the system to cover any additional unknowns that are negligible. Undecided

I was about to ask what the system would be solving for then I saw your next post...

chessroboto
ColdCoffee wrote:

Or maybe a should not be zero.... now I am comfused.... cause I did not mean to rule out self study....

Oh well! Never claimed to be good at Math!


EDIT: ... and yet you choose an ala-Matrix-rendered Pi as your avatar?

Curious. Undecided

ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

Or maybe a should not be zero.... now I am comfused.... cause I did not mean to rule out self study....

Oh well! Never claimed to be good at Math!


EDIT: ... and yet you choose an ala-Matrix-rendered Pi as your avatar?

Curious.


Smile

ozzie_c_cobblepot
ColdCoffee wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


People use the term "linear combination" outside of technical disciplines?


You don't consider chess a technical discipline?

orangehonda
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


People use the term "linear combination" outside of technical disciplines?


You don't consider chess a technical discipline?


In the US?  Maybe just a hobby.

chessroboto
orangehonda wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

People use the term "linear combination" outside of technical disciplines?


You don't consider chess a technical discipline?


In the US?  Maybe just a hobby.


For one Bobby Fischer, chess was life! Laughing

ColdCoffee
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


People use the term "linear combination" outside of technical disciplines?


You don't consider chess a technical discipline?


Oh no, I never said that.

"...to me this is a normal way of talking."

This suggested to me everyday language. Chess certainly has its technicalities, when I say technical discipline; however, in my mind I generally think of Hard sciences and Math. Chess shares many elements with these. So I would have a hard time says that chess is not a technical discipline- at least in spirit if nothing else. After all, as I mentioned before- playing chess makes me a better mathematician.

Ziryab
davepacker wrote:

if you dont want to gat checkmated by some 8 year old, spend a few hours on http://chesstempo.com/chess-tactics.html.


I teach 8 year olds how to checkmate me, and some younger kids too. Some of their trophies are nearly as tall as they are.

ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:

I wanted to recommend this book for people who choose self-study first:

Studying Chess Made Easy by Andrew Soltis

Consider it as the most up-to-date manual or guidebook to learn how to become stronger in chess and is backed by the experience of a reputable chess writer.

If you read the few Amazon reviews, you will notice the general feeling of "I wish that I had something like this when I was starting out with chess years ago." I share their sentiments.

There will always be lists and forum threads on what books and materials to read, study and master, but this is one of those books that explains to you HOW to study any of the materials.

EDIT the EDIT: In your world, think of it as a Math course curriculum outline that has personal notes from each of the professors on WHAT they expect you should learn and HOW you could learn it best. Of course, one can argue that everyone has a different way of learning, but this book is just a guide and NOT a law.

For me, this is not spoonfeeding; rather, this is being EFFICIENT for a self-taught casual player.


Just to provide feedback. I finally bought this book (snuck it into a textbook order along with the new edition (11th) of Chessmaster- since I lost the 10th edition disks). I really like this book so far. The author seems to do a really good job getting his points across. I appreciate how he justifies his opinions about the proper ways to study and think about chess (instead of just being prescriptive).

I can't say too much more about it yet other than simply to comment that it is very readible and interesting. I will post more on a separate thread when I finish it.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

GainzInfinite

Very interesting post with a lot of information which is useful for learning players.

My two cents...

I think coaching is what you get when you hit a "brick wall" in your chess improvement... This person can see clearly your weaknesses and improve them immediately with an objective view and a wealth of knowledge...

But I do not think coaching is something you get just "to get good at chess" automatically...

This is why I say it is better as a tool to skip over the "brick walls" rather than an excuse for the student to not work in their own time.

A student has to work hard or the coaching will be for nothing but I do not think that all this fancy software,specialized books, etc are completely necessary.

I think once becoming familiar with the most basic endgames (perhaps from a beginner friendly book like "Silmans Endgame Course", a student should spend all of his time on tactics and combinational themes (maybe 50% of the time) and looking over WELL annotated (70/30 text to variations ratio ) games in depth (for maybe 40% of the time)...This will make you familiar with typical plans,pawn structures,tactics and motifs. Remaining time is spent with a coach building openings knowledge and looking over your games.

More on coaching:

I and others have the opinion that a player should not have coaching with somebody more than 500 ELO point higher than them because it is much too difficult for the coach to "dumb down" and simplify their material for the student.

I have seen a good friend of mine (IM Tibor Karolyi) trying to teach weak children and it is a laugh (for me) and a waste of time (for him).

So a player of Tiger Lilovs level for you would be like using a sledge hammer to nail in a thumb tack....or using a tank to shoot rabbits, too much power! Laughing

He does look quite good and in the future I might even consider using his services as I am FIDE 2100+ and he is about 300 points above me (a nice cushion).

By the way...I have just restarted to give online lessons too, so if anybody wants to improve a little...my online lessons are quite cheap. Cool

ColdCoffee
BrendanNorman wrote:

Very interesting post with a lot of information which is useful for learning players.

My two cents...

I think coaching is what you get when you hit a "brick wall" in your chess improvement... This person can see clearly your weaknesses and improve them immediately with an objective view and a wealth of knowledge...

But I do not think coaching is something you get just "to get good at chess" automatically...

This is why I say it is better as a tool to skip over the "brick walls" rather than an excuse for the student to not work in their own time.

A student has to work hard or the coaching will be for nothing but I do not think that all this fancy software,specialized books, etc are completely necessary.

I think once becoming familiar with the most basic endgames (perhaps from a beginner friendly book like "Silmans Endgame Course", a student should spend all of his time on tactics and combinational themes (maybe 50% of the time) and looking over WELL annotated (70/30 text to variations ratio ) games in depth (for maybe 40% of the time)...This will make you familiar with typical plans,pawn structures,tactics and motifs. Remaining time is spent with a coach building openings knowledge and looking over your games.

More on coaching:

I and others have the opinion that a player should not have coaching with somebody more than 500 ELO point higher than them because it is much too difficult for the coach to "dumb down" and simplify their material for the student.

I have seen a good friend of mine (IM Tibor Karolyi) trying to teach weak children and it is a laugh (for me) and a waste of time (for him).

So a player of Tiger Lilovs level for you would be like using a sledge hammer to nail in a thumb tack....or using a tank to shoot rabbits, too much power!

He does look quite good and in the future I might even consider using his services as I am FIDE 2100+ and he is about 300 points above me (a nice cushion).

By the way...I have just restarted to give online lessons too, so if anybody wants to improve a little...my online lessons are quite cheap. 


Is there a book, or source of annotated games you could recommend?

GainzInfinite
ColdCoffee wrote:
BrendanNorman wrote:

Very interesting post with a lot of information which is useful for learning players.

My two cents...

I think coaching is what you get when you hit a "brick wall" in your chess improvement... This person can see clearly your weaknesses and improve them immediately with an objective view and a wealth of knowledge...

But I do not think coaching is something you get just "to get good at chess" automatically...

This is why I say it is better as a tool to skip over the "brick walls" rather than an excuse for the student to not work in their own time.

A student has to work hard or the coaching will be for nothing but I do not think that all this fancy software,specialized books, etc are completely necessary.

I think once becoming familiar with the most basic endgames (perhaps from a beginner friendly book like "Silmans Endgame Course", a student should spend all of his time on tactics and combinational themes (maybe 50% of the time) and looking over WELL annotated (70/30 text to variations ratio ) games in depth (for maybe 40% of the time)...This will make you familiar with typical plans,pawn structures,tactics and motifs. Remaining time is spent with a coach building openings knowledge and looking over your games.

More on coaching:

I and others have the opinion that a player should not have coaching with somebody more than 500 ELO point higher than them because it is much too difficult for the coach to "dumb down" and simplify their material for the student.

I have seen a good friend of mine (IM Tibor Karolyi) trying to teach weak children and it is a laugh (for me) and a waste of time (for him).

So a player of Tiger Lilovs level for you would be like using a sledge hammer to nail in a thumb tack....or using a tank to shoot rabbits, too much power!

He does look quite good and in the future I might even consider using his services as I am FIDE 2100+ and he is about 300 points above me (a nice cushion).

By the way...I have just restarted to give online lessons too, so if anybody wants to improve a little...my online lessons are quite cheap.


Is there a book, or source of annotated games you could recommend?


 Yes actually...

Any of Alekhine's books which he annotated are excellent.

Alekhine's annotations were pre-computer generation (which means ALL his own analysis) yet most of his ideas stand the test of time and are truly genius in themselves, also he didnt just fill a book with lengthy variations (there are some since he was possibly the greatest calculator in history), but have a large amount of very informative and interesting text, anecdotes and more.

He explains plans and ideas in all types of positions from Ruy Lopez's to Queens Gambit's and more...I gained maybe 200+ points years ago thanks to studying his work in depth.

Another book of course is Fischer's "My 60 Memorable Games" which is also a classic and which most GMs have studied and even Boris Gelfand said "When I first got it...it was a great treasure, I think my father traded somebody for it...I studied it in great depth" Laughing

Niven42

I will agree with Reb and say that 2200+ is probably a good level to start looking for a teacher.  It's too early right now.  You'll find that most of the groundwork (books, programs) to get to that point has already been laid for you if you poke around.

 

Have you tried to get into a group on here that does a lot of vote Chess games?  I'm in a few groups right now with games that have been fantastic learning experiences.  Perhaps one of the admins could send you an invite (hint, hint)...

Niven42

You know, I've been hearing some good things about Fritz 12.  It supposedly has a lot of training material included in the program.  Can anyone vouch for it?

GainzInfinite
Niven42 wrote:

You know, I've been hearing some good things about Fritz 12.  It supposedly has a lot of training material included in the program.  Can anyone vouch for it?


 Definitely not.

Fritz 12 is designed for strong players  for game analysis and sparring and is an inferior engine to Rybka 4 (which comes with the Fritz 12 interface as well).

It would not benefit a player of your level too much and I would recommend "Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition" for overall tutorials,sparring, rated games, tournament play, and in fact EVERYTHING for a beginner to get started and improve quickly...Chessbase has no such software so comprehensive for weaker players and there is a definite hole in the market here.

Another software which may compliment it very well is "Chess Tactics for Beginners" which is excellent for improving tactical vision and calculation.

I am SURE that with 6 months of training with these two programs a 1200 player could reach 1600 if using them intelligently.

Any more questions, feel free Cool

ColdCoffee
BrendanNorman wrote:
Niven42 wrote:

You know, I've been hearing some good things about Fritz 12.  It supposedly has a lot of training material included in the program.  Can anyone vouch for it?


 Definitely not.

Fritz 12 is designed for strong players  for game analysis and sparring and is an inferior engine to Rybka 4 (which comes with the Fritz 12 interface as well).

It would not benefit a player of your level too much and I would recommend "Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition" for overall tutorials,sparring, rated games, tournament play, and in fact EVERYTHING for a beginner to get started and improve quickly...Chessbase has no such software so comprehensive for weaker players and there is a definite hole in the market here.

Another software which may compliment it very well is "Chess Tactics for Beginners" which is excellent for improving tactical vision and calculation.

I am SURE that with 6 months of training with these two programs a 1200 player could reach 1600 if using them intelligently.

Any more questions, feel free


I recently upgraded to Chessmaster: Grandmaster Edition myself. I definitely think it is the appropriate program for myself. I have looked at that tactics program as well (on websites, etc...) I would like to veture that was eventually, but for now the finances are not there.

One nice things about CM:GME is the Blundder alert in training mode. It alerts you when you are about to make a really stupid move like getting your queen traded for a knight, etc... I tend to make a lot of these errors- it has really helped to complement my tactics training (which currently accounts for about 80% of my chess study).

ColdCoffee
paul211 wrote:

2. I and others have the opinion that a player should not have coaching with somebody more than 500 ELO point higher than them because it is much too difficult for the coach to "dumb down" and simplify their material for the student.

I think that it is all related to the quality of the teacher and not the Elo rating.

A good coach would know what to do when teaching kids to keep their interest up and try to develop their potential.

So it is up to the coach to decide what she/he can do and not the rating level of the coach.


I could see both arguments having some practical validity to them. As an advanced math guy, I do find it hard sometimes to think on the level of a person not in advanced math- my tendancy is to explain math to people in a very proofy way, I do not do it on purpose, its just how I think about math. As a consequence, sometimes I tend to explain concepts which seem very crystal clear (and in laymen's terms) to me, but to others do not seem so simple(I am finding this in an article I am currently writting).

On the same token a person who understands a concept very deeply, although perhaps likely a times to provide a confusing explaination, is more likely to be able to understand and explain the deeper concepts- and to be able to identify which foundational concepts are missing. (For example, I may have a hard time tutoring people in a laymen sort of way, but very quickly I can identify where their problems lie. I have turned D students into A students multiple times). Also, a teacher that cannot "dumb down" a concept to a layman's level even after being asked to by the student, likely does not truly understand the concept(To paraphrase Richard Feynman). Generally, a brilliant person can break it down properly, they just need the student to teach them how to communicate with them on their level.

First and foremost, Chess- like Math, is a philosophy.

VLaurenT

I agree with this idea that the coach shouldn't be too strong compared to his students : whatever his teaching experience, the main problem is visualization speed : stronger players just forget how difficult it is for newbies to visualize things on the chessboard, and are often unable to adapt, because it has become so second-nature for them.

No later than last week-end, I gave a lesson at the club on various tactical patterns. People in the audience were rated 1100-1500 elo. I tried to make them visualize a few short variations in their head (2-3 moves), but despite doing it slowly, I had to slow down even more so that some people in the group could give it a try. As I work mainly with young children and adults in the 1300-1500 range, I had forgotten that there is yet another gap with people in the 1000-1300 range.

On the other hand, I've taken lessons with teachers from 2200 to GM level, and I felt the best coaches for me were the FMs : I could understand what they were saying, and they could still relate to the problems I was facing.