Magnus Carlsen gives away the title, what does this all mean?

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Ziryab
IronSteam1 wrote:
Wits-end wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
IronSteam1 wrote:

In recent interviews, Carlsen just sounds tired of the whole World Championship. Even the mention of it makes him look away with disinterest.

He's been doing it for nearly 10 years now. At this point, he apparently just wants to be done with it, once and for all.

When asked if him stepping away devalued the next World Championship match, he casually responded, "That's not really my problem."

Which further clarifies his mindset: he views the World Championship as a "problem" ... a burden ... something he just wants to be freed from.

 

Other World Champions have felt that responsibility came with the title. I’ve struggled to like Magnus as long as I’ve known of him (when he was and IM playing in the B Group at Wijk aan Zee). Sometimes I do. I’ve warmed up to him quite a bit in the past couple of years, but all this talk about what he thinks of the WCC has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

Nepo and Ding will be a great match! Both play exciting chess. My hope is that one or both of them also start getting a string of tournament victories against Magnus. Make no mistake, Magnus has brought a style of play to chess that is inspiring, but he still comes across as a boy who cares mostly about himself.

Well said. However, to play the Magnus’s Advocate for a moment…

When one has known nothing other than being the wonder child from his young single digit years and being given the red carpet-VIP treatment ever since, why would be expect a different behavior? Of course, it isn’t a mandatory cause and effect exercise, but it does provide a type of backdrop. Not to say he hasn’t earned his title and he has been (and remains) one of the best. We see it in other venues as well, the music and acting world specifically. Youngsters are thrust into an adult world by managers, producers, and parents who would do well to be more guardians than money grubbers. Most often i think it delays, if not prohibits, emotional development. Just another viewpoint. 

Agreed (to both @Ziryab and @Wits-end).

The situation is what it is. I also understand those who have complained about the timing - how Carlsen dropped this bombshell announcement after the Candidates had finished.

As Nakamura said on his stream, he felt that the timing hurt Caruana the most. Had Caruana known that second place would've gotten him to another World Championship match, then Caruana would've absolutely gotten second place. But because he assumed first place was the only option, he played risky instead of his usual solid approach, which led to his several losses.

Though, apparently Magnus was waiting to see how the Candidates would go. He was, apparently, willing to play Firouzja, Ding, or Caruana, had any of them won.

But seeing Nepo win again was the final nail in the coffin.

 

His attitude that he is willing to play some but not others is particularly appalling. He led with that after the match with Nepo. Poisoned the process.

llama36
DreamscapeHorizons wrote:

can't take ur own medicine? 

Wha--

You're the one who's backpedaling with "I was going to edit out the insults." All I've done so far is insult you back... asking me if I can't take my own medicine... ?

You were right about one thing, I can be pretty condescending, but look at what I'm working with. What do you want me to say? I mean really... we can start with Carlsen. You can watch his podcast where he talks about giving up a title, for example. That explains some of his motivation... he was pretty brutally honest. He said during that Karjakin match when he was behind at one point he was laying on the floor in the fetal position feeling sorry for himself before eventually getting over it enough to play again the next day. In other words he's being pretty genuine about his feelings... and it has nothing to do with money. I read somewhere that the market worth of his Play Magnus venture is worth about 100 million... you really think he cares about making an extra 1 million at a WCC match? Even if they doubled it why would he care?

Oh, and the government indoctrination centers. Yeah man, I can tell you're really a free thinker with well considered ideas. You have a meme pfp that voices the opinion of a large group of emotional people... I don't care what side of politics you're on, 9 times out of 10 a large group of emotional people are saying something dumb. Maybe 1 time out of 10 they're outraged at something meaningful... you know, like I imagine Ukraine citizens are pretty united and emotional about being invaded. But adopting some political slogan... I mean come on, if your opinions/ideas fit on a bumper sticker then you're a moron, and again, this goes for anyone regardless of their political affiliation.

"They let me into college 3 years early" ok, but look at you now, with your meme pfp about snowflakes and whining about indoctrination, not even self aware enough to realize that your criteria for what's true is whether or not it's convenient to believe.

llama36
IronSteam1 wrote:
Wits-end wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
IronSteam1 wrote:

In recent interviews, Carlsen just sounds tired of the whole World Championship. Even the mention of it makes him look away with disinterest.

He's been doing it for nearly 10 years now. At this point, he apparently just wants to be done with it, once and for all.

When asked if him stepping away devalued the next World Championship match, he casually responded, "That's not really my problem."

Which further clarifies his mindset: he views the World Championship as a "problem" ... a burden ... something he just wants to be freed from.

 

Other World Champions have felt that responsibility came with the title. I’ve struggled to like Magnus as long as I’ve known of him (when he was and IM playing in the B Group at Wijk aan Zee). Sometimes I do. I’ve warmed up to him quite a bit in the past couple of years, but all this talk about what he thinks of the WCC has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

Nepo and Ding will be a great match! Both play exciting chess. My hope is that one or both of them also start getting a string of tournament victories against Magnus. Make no mistake, Magnus has brought a style of play to chess that is inspiring, but he still comes across as a boy who cares mostly about himself.

Well said. However, to play the Magnus’s Advocate for a moment…

When one has known nothing other than being the wonder child from his young single digit years and being given the red carpet-VIP treatment ever since, why would be expect a different behavior? Of course, it isn’t a mandatory cause and effect exercise, but it does provide a type of backdrop. Not to say he hasn’t earned his title and he has been (and remains) one of the best. We see it in other venues as well, the music and acting world specifically. Youngsters are thrust into an adult world by managers, producers, and parents who would do well to be more guardians than money grubbers. Most often i think it delays, if not prohibits, emotional development. Just another viewpoint. 

Agreed (to both @Ziryab and @Wits-end).

The situation is what it is. I also understand those who have complained about the timing - how Carlsen dropped this bombshell announcement after the Candidates had finished.

As Nakamura said on his stream, he felt that the timing hurt Caruana the most. Had Caruana known that second place would've gotten him to another World Championship match, then Caruana would've absolutely gotten second place. But because he assumed first place was the only option, he played risky instead of his usual solid approach, which led to his several losses.

Though, apparently Magnus was waiting to see how the Candidates would go. He was, apparently, willing to play Firouzja, Ding, or Caruana, had any of them won.

But seeing Nepo win again was the final nail in the coffin.

Meh, Naka's hot takes are pretty ignorable IMO. Caruana could have gotten at least 2nd place at will? Yeah, sure, whatever.

Naka also said that had he gotten 2nd that Carlsen wouldn't have quit, just to make sure Naka never had a chance at the title. Sure sounds like some powerful sour grapes after losing that game to Ding "I wouldn't have gotten to play anyway."

One of the things that annoys me about Naka is he doesn't seem very self aware... he probably actually believes these things he's said...

MaetsNori

Anyway, I look forward to the future of World Champions. They seem to be getting stronger and younger.

Perhaps Mishra Abhimanyu (the record-breaking youngest GM) might be a future WC.

He's 13 years and 4 months of age now, and still on an upward rise, toward 2600. (Currently 2553, and climbing each month.)  surprise

Carlsen, by comparison, didn't reach 2600 until he was 15 ...

MaetsNori
nMsALpg wrote:

Meh, Naka's hot takes are pretty ignorable IMO. Caruana could have gotten at least 2nd place at will? Yeah, sure, whatever.

Naka also said that had he gotten 2nd that Carlsen wouldn't have quit, just to make sure Naka never had a chance at the title. Sure sounds like some powerful sour grapes after losing that game to Ding "I wouldn't have gotten to play anyway."

One of the things that annoys me about Naka is he doesn't seem very self aware... he probably actually believes these things he's said...

Yeah, I made a face when he said that Carlsen would've played, had he secured second place ...

I understand they have a rivalry, but I seriously doubt that Carlsen makes any of his decisions based on what Nakamura does.

He would probably say, in typical Carlsen fashion, "Perhaps I would've played, if Nakamura had finished second ... and if Nakamura were a better player ..." tongue.png

llama36
IronSteam1 wrote:
nMsALpg wrote:

Meh, Naka's hot takes are pretty ignorable IMO. Caruana could have gotten at least 2nd place at will? Yeah, sure, whatever.

Naka also said that had he gotten 2nd that Carlsen wouldn't have quit, just to make sure Naka never had a chance at the title. Sure sounds like some powerful sour grapes after losing that game to Ding "I wouldn't have gotten to play anyway."

One of the things that annoys me about Naka is he doesn't seem very self aware... he probably actually believes these things he's said...

Yeah, I made a face when he said that Carlsen would've played, had he secured second place ...

I understand they have a rivalry, but I seriously doubt that Carlsen makes any of his decisions based on what Nakamura does.

He would probably say, in typical Carlsen fashion, "Perhaps I would've played, if Nakamura had finished second ... and if Nakamura were a better player ..."

As many know, Naka has only one classical win against Carlsen... even Shirov had a better shot at the title... at least he actually qualified for the match!

Naka's historical parallel is something like a Taimanov i.e. something like 5th in line for the title, and utterly crushed by a dominant world champion.

fabelhaft

”Other World Champions have felt that responsibility came with the title. I’ve struggled to like Magnus as long as I’ve known of him”

Just look at the other often mentioned greatest ever Candidates, is Carlsen really that much worse? Kasparov not only broke away from FIDE but handpicked two participants for a Candidates final match, then never managed to arrange the title match, and instead picked an opponent without qualification, and then complained about not getting the rematch he had abolished. Fischer demanded all kinds of things and then refused to play, but claimed to be the World Champion 20 years later, and seeing #119 Spassky as the legitimate opponent. Lasker saw it as legitimate to just give the title to Capa (it would have been more fun if he had given it to Janowski :-)) and then play a match as challenger. Alekhine thought picking Bogo in 1934 was fine, etc etc. Karpov, well, he got his fair share of advantages by FIDE without complaining, like having Anand play dozens of qualification games just before the match and then a couple of days combined for rest, travel and title match prep etc etc. I’m not sure that Carlsen comes off as some extremely irresponsible person just for not wanting to play more matches…