Magnus Carlsen is an embarrassment

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Vibhav_Jha

Lets just call Magnus only the world rapid champion if he wins in tiebreak. afterall he only won the rapid :3

Taurus44
FaceCrusher kirjutas:

I was absolutely THRILLED with the draw. And I'll tell you why. I Really Really Really want Fabiano to win this. I want our first American World Chess Champion in decades. Fabiano was getting murdered in this position, and he was down to 8 minutes vs Magnus's 45, in a position where Magnus was pointing an artillery canon at Caurana's head. I thought FOR SURE it was over. I was dissapointed and pissed. And when this draw came through, Fabiano and US Chess dodged a bullet. Also, on behalf of Magnus, of COURSE everyone here knows it was a "bad draw offer." You are all sitting at home or in the office, comfortble, no one watching you, with nothing to lose, not a dime on the line, all with Sesse and Stockfish telling you the perfect moves, so you "know" what ever player should do. They are sitting there in a fishbowl, the world watching, knowing every move will be studied by children and grandmasters for all of eternity, knowing every win and loss with be immortalized, with over a Million Dollars on the line. They don't have engines there, and they have no idea really what is going to happen. If Magnus didn't see a viable way forward, then no one here can tell me that they would have seen it if they were sitting in Magnus's place.

 

"Magus is a coward" Okay, you guys go beat the world number #2 with the world watching and a million dollars on the line after 11 exhausting games with no engine to tell you the perfect move. You all know it was a bad draw offer because you all had Sesse and Stockfish on your phone or desktop and you had nothing on the line. If you were sitting in the chair with no engine, I promise no one here would know more than Magnus did. You can't evaluate a decision by someone else using premises that apply to you - i.e. - Not tired, You have the engine and no pressure. You have to evaluate decisions based on the premises that apply to the person who made the decision. "But I would NEVER have offered a draw in that position!!" Of course you wouldn't, because Mutha fuckas, you aint NEVER gonna be in a position to offer anything to the world number 2 player in the world championship.

 

WORD!

 

TectonicDestroyer
FaceCrusher wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

They tested the final position in CCCC with various engines. 

Most of the games ended as draw! 80% I think. (there will be 56 games )

In this game, even no 1 stockfish cant win as black!

The likely result is that " Black's advantage is not significant enough to forced win" 

 


Wait a minute.

You're telling me that all these armchair quarterbacks here are wrong, and that Magnus Carlsen, THE WORLD CHESS CHAMPION saw something they didn't and was right all along?

No way! 

 

That comment made my day.

Daniel1115

Your an embarrassment

Daniel1115

drmrboss wrote:

They tested the final position in CCCC with various engines. 

Most of the games ended as draw! 80% I think. (there will be 56 games )

In this game, even no 1 stockfish cant win as black!

The likely result is that " Black's advantage is not significant enough to forced win" 

 

Just goes to prove that Magnus was right about his odds to win. Stockfish crushed Fire normally

Giannelli

Engines do not prove anything, there are positions which are considered equal by the engines but are not equal when humans play them (because one side requires really precise and perfect play while the other has many strong moves and possibility). In this position all grand masters (and in particular both players) agreed that black was better. I understand Carlsen decision to play safe with his superiority in short times controls, but to say the position was equal is not true.   

Vibhav_Jha

Mrmerbs57 wrote:

Well quite a big view here against poor Magnus, I have followed this final game and watched all the Analysis through two you-tubes, the top engines give the final position as a small plus to black, yes there is plenty of play the the plus in the position is only small, I admit Magnus does have a time advantage but it's not a position that Magnus opponent would struggle to make the next time control, these are all factors Magnus would have taken into account before offering the draw, is the small plus going to be enough to push for a win, recall the defence kasparov lost his crown in at 5 games he had a small plus in but converting such edges into a win was very difficult even for kasparov, players now days are so good that a small edge is nolonger going to be enough for a win!!? Yes Magnus would have considered the quicker time controls in the coming games, that does not make him a poor champion, F.I.D.E. have made the rules of the championships not Magnus he is not a bad person, or a poor sportsman, he would congratulate his opponent if successful I am sure, but one needs to appreciate the pressure of being in his position it's not easy I certainly wouldn't want to be in the position pressure and all the eyes of the chess world your Judge and Jury.

while I agree with all your views, I dont think he will take his lose that easy. 😂

BonTheCat

Mmerbs57: Well, the question then is, why did Magnus continue well beyond the realms of decency and respect for his opponent in a couple of dead drawn endgames earlier in the match?

Daniel1115

Giannelli wrote:

Engines do not prove anything, there are positions which are considered equal by the engines but are not equal when humans play them (because one side requires really precise and perfect play while the other has many strong moves and possibility). In this position all grand masters (and in particular both players) agreed that black was better. I understand Carlsen decision to play safe with his superiority in short times controls, but to say the position was equal is not true.   

Magnus stated in. the press conference that the only way forward is to trade queens where he sees nowhere to make progress. Just like in human play engines have better results with white. Here you have stockfish which is about 200 points above fire draw even though it would normally win from move 1

Bereket000

FaceCrusher wrote:

I was absolutely THRILLED with the draw. And I'll tell you why. I Really Really Really want Fabiano to win this. I want our first American World Chess Champion in decades. Fabiano was getting murdered in this position, and he was down to 8 minutes vs Magnus's 45, in a position where Magnus was pointing an artillery canon at Caurana's head. I thought FOR SURE it was over. I was dissapointed and pissed. And when this draw came through, Fabiano and US Chess dodged a bullet. Also, on behalf of Magnus, of COURSE everyone here knows it was a "bad draw offer." You are all sitting at home or in the office, comfortble, no one watching you, with nothing to lose, not a dime on the line, all with Sesse and Stockfish telling you the perfect moves, so you "know" what ever player should do. They are sitting there in a fishbowl, the world watching, knowing every move will be studied by children and grandmasters for all of eternity, knowing every win and loss with be immortalized, with over a Million Dollars on the line. They don't have engines there, and they have no idea really what is going to happen. If Magnus didn't see a viable way forward, then no one here can tell me that they would have seen it if they were sitting in Magnus's place.

 

"Magus is a coward" Okay, you guys go beat the world number #2 with the world watching and a million dollars on the line after 11 exhausting games with no engine to tell you the perfect move. You all know it was a bad draw offer because you all had Sesse and Stockfish on your phone or desktop and you had nothing on the line. If you were sitting in the chair with no engine, I promise no one here would know more than Magnus did. You can't evaluate a decision by someone else using premises that apply to you - i.e. - Not tired, You have the engine and no pressure. You have to evaluate decisions based on the premises that apply to the person who made the decision. "But I would NEVER have offered a draw in that position!!" Of course you wouldn't, because Mutha fuckas, you aint NEVER gonna be in a position to offer anything to the world number 2 player in the world championship.

great post!!!

varelse1

Yes!

Magnus has been the #1 ranked player in the world for the last eight years running.

He should be ashamed of himself.

OZmatic

Hate the game, not the player.

Actually it is our fault for letting money take over.

(Saying Carlsen has no heart is ridiculous. He's been compromised, not erased.)

Kjetil_Amanaki

Varelse1 Try to take Magnus place in the game, i am sure you would not do different then him in this situation. Magnus believe he has better chances now when it goes to Rapid because it was to big risk to lose the game at the game of the 12. Magnus still want to be world champion you know, so he does what he need, even the rest of the world would think he is wrong

GamboldV

>because Mutha fuckas, you aint NEVER gonna be in a position to offer anything to the world number 2 player in the world championship.<

Facecrusher's post, which is getting a lot of praise, has a fundamental flaw. He's saying that since you, or we, are not grandmasters vying for a title, we don't have the right to comment on Magnus's decision, much less criticize it. 

This is a very tiresome and over-used tactic on forums - someone doesn't like an opinion so they belittle the "credentials" of the person making the opinion, and then announce that NO-ONE has right to an opinion except for a very few. 

I imagine that Facecrusher goes to movies, and I'm sure there are a few he doesn't like. He better not say anything though, since he's not a movie director. I bet he's gone to restaurants where the food was bad - well, unless he's a master chef, I hope he's shutting up about it. ETC. 

Facecrusher's argument is a non-argument.  It has nothing to do with Magnus Carlsen or his decision to offer a draw. It's just a lame attempt to chill opinions he doesn't want to hear.  If Facecrusher only wants to hear what Grandmasters has to say, why is he even on this Forum? 

TMB

SeniorPatzer

I'm rooting for Fabio.  I'm not against Magnus, I think he's a great world champion.  I just want an American, or Italian-American to win.  

 

Having said that, the more people hate on Magnus, the more sympathy I have for him, and the more I like him, lol.  

 

I was as shocked as anybody.  But I don't hate Magnus for it.  As I said elsewhere it was a total gift to Fabio.  I think Fabi's chances are better in tiebreaks than in trying to hold that final position in the time pressure that he was in.  

SiriamIto

Carlsen has become lazy and is not motivated anymore. Good for him. Time to quit chess.

AdamBurczyk
If chess championships had a minimum pot say $300,000, split two thirds to the winner and one third to the loser, and then the pot grew by 200,000 for every win as white and 300,000 for every win as black, we would see plenty of blood and very few draws.

Chess players would take dangerous chances, even at the highest level. Adding winnings to the pot prevents the conservative gaming we have seen in this tournament.

If Magnus had pursued games 1 and 12 to the end and won, and Fabio with his best game won any middle game as white, we would see Magnus collect two thirds of a cool million, $666,667 and Fabio collect $333,333.
RivertonKnight
  • And yet non-ya (including me) are playing, for the world championship. Hmmm....
Rat1960

I was watching the game on Jerry's twitch channel. I thought a Nc3, black bishop swap and b3 would have made progress not possible for black. Now if I could see that you can be sure that these two great players would not only see that but say also see a ten move path to such a blockade.
I would like to see eight fifteen minutes each plus thirty seconds a move for the tie-break over two days.
I sure do not want to see things decided on the time and colour odds game.

Pulpofeira
Kjetil_Amanaki escribió:

Varelse1 Try to take Magnus place in the game, i am sure you would not do different then him in this situation. Magnus believe he has better chances now when it goes to Rapid because it was to big risk to lose the game at the game of the 12. Magnus still want to be world champion you know, so he does what he need, even the rest of the world would think he is wrong

I think he was being sarcastic, my precious.