Millionaire Chess 2!!

For me, it is how they are trying to take chess to the next level. At the end of day, something that is good for chess (i.e. something that will take it to the next level) brings more people into the game. This tournament does not do that with its entry fee. Another thing that bothers me, is how the organizers act like they care about the game and that is why they are holding this tournament. If that were the case, they would have made the entry fee much more manageable. I mean, they were clearly willing to take a loss. This would have gotten them more entries. Like previous said, if it was treated as a high stakes tournament, I would have forgot about it. But, instead it is treated like a God send... yet it already failed(on paper that is).

A few things, 

1. They dont have sponsors. 

2. No one hates on golf clubs because golf clubs dont pretend to good for the game. Same idea for the Sinequefield Cup.

3. "Some of the FM/IM I know, have participated to MC1, and went away with the money they make in one year, working hard. But of course the haters/trolls don't mention that fact." This isnt true, unless by some, you mean one.

4. You really should read our arguments against it a little more in depth. You come off as sensitive and ignorant. Everything that you had a problem with has already been addressed.

Well, I think that the answer is zero. To get more than US$ 1,000 you had to finish among the first 20 places, there´s no FM or IM in the first 20 places, all are GMs.

Final Ranking after 9 Rounds

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There was one FM and two IMs who picked up some nice "Class Prizes" (2350-2499)

A more interesting view is to look at the overall tournament.  Approximately 260 people went home with nothing, and approximately 200 people went home with less than their entry fee.  These numbers will be higher for MC#2 (assumming an equal or greater number of entrants) because of the prize redistribution.

This is what I was refering to. The FM got $40,000 and the IMs got $20,000 and $10,000. I highly doubt the IMs make less than that in a year... Otherwise they wouldnt be at the tournament.

Okay, thank you for the information.

Comparing Rex Sinquefeld to what Ashley and Lee are doing is asinine. Does the Sinquefeld Cup give a chance for the average player to make money? No, obviously. It's invite only. That's not the point however, as Rex Sinquefeld isn't claiming that the Sinquefeld is "bringing chess to the masses". What Rex Sinquefeld is doing to promote chess is the Chess Club and Scholastic Center of St. Louis and by not only setting up the Hall of Fame in an area that's easily accessible, in a central area of a major city (rather than it's previous incarnations in a dingy old basement in the suburbs or an out-of-the-way industrial park) and by making it something people would actually want to go to.

"The guy is rich, and for fun he throws away, year after year hundred of thousand of dollars."

Yes. Probably millions of dollars actually. He's made his money elsewhere and is now putting into promoting chess for the sake of promoting chess, not for promoting himself or for profiting from it. I couldn't even say what Rex Sinquefeld looks like, as whenever I go to the website for the St. Louis Chess Club, the World Chess Hall of Fame, or even the Sinquefeld Cup, his mug isn't plastered all over it.

>Could someone explain why MC2 is such a terrible thing?  No-one is compelled to enter.  <

Let's just address one argument that crops up a lot, to help you with your thinking on this. Not being "compelled to enter" MC2 or anything else doesn't give that thing a pass from criticism. 

To use an extreme argument, you aren't required to join the Ku Klux Klan either, but it's still an organization that should be heavily criticized.

To use a lighter one, you aren't required to shop at Wal-Mart, but it doesn't mean we can't talk about the relative low quality of most of their merchandise.

Got it? Don't use the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. It's specious and lazy and ultimately doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. 

TMB

>Maurice Ashley is a self-publicist, but he seems fairly harmless<

I'm sure Mr. Ashley is a nice, kind and sincere person. I have never had an issue with his (or Ms. Lee's) personalities, although I admit I know very little about either.

Whether or not Millionaire Chess is harmless or not is another story. Some of us might argue that it not only doesn't help amateur chess, but that it sucks money away from other tournaments that are much more attuned to serving the vast majority of amateur chessplayers...and not just an increasingly growing number of grandmasters. 

MB

I agree that MC will not do anything for amateur chess, but I think that your gloom and doom scenario is a bit over the top.  

MC needs about 2000 players to show a profit.  Most of the participants will play in other tournaments during the year.  For the most part, these will be affluent people.  They are not struggling to make ends meet.

The USCF has 50,000 active members.  That's plenty to support other tournaments.

Perhaps. But $1000 (or $800, or whatever they are charging this week) represents about five regular big tournaments. Couple that with the expense of flying to and staying in Las Vegas, and it would be easy for some of the rank and file to blow their chess budget for the year.

However, since MC is obviously (to me anyway) mutating into a Grandmaster party with a cadre of loyal patzers footing the bill, yes, I'm too doom and gloom.  Maybe everyone should just send their check straight to Nakamura now, and save themselves another thousand on the travel expenses. 

And now Millionaire Chess already passed the 240 participants! Let's see what the trolls invent now to discredit it!

Wait let's see some of the asinine arguments:

1. No GMs are playing... Now also Nakamura is playing then the argument changed in: "send your checks to Nakamura..."

2. It will blow up the entire budget of a player... well guess what? With my money I do what I want! But dear MaskedTroll, when you will pay my bills I will eventually care about the moronic arguments you make! Till then, with MY OWN MONEY I do what I want!

and of course one shouldn't call these people troll and haters? Come on!

Whatever they do in the MC2 they will be criticized and attacked, but it is really important to know the opinion of parasites like maskedbishop! He really did so much for chess!

Whoever said "no GMs playing". I know you're eager to flame anyone who doesn't share your opinion, but there's no sense in inventing arguments that aren't being made.

MB

Playing in any major tournament is expensive, the entry fee is only a fraction of the cost.  I estimate that my cost to play in the Chicago Open, which is within driving distance, is about half the cost of playing in MC#2.

I had considered playing in the USCF Senior Open until I saw the price of the cruise ship ticket (last year's tournamet was part of a cruise).  Playing in MC#2 would be cheaper than the ticket.

I think this is the essence of the 'no-one has to enter' point I made earlier which you disparaged with some stuff about the ku klux klan.  It seems the core of your argument is that you have sympathy for the amateurs footing the bill for the professional players who scoop most of the money.

But the amateurs who enter the tournament clearly think it is worth it.  For whatever reason (rubbing shoulders with top players, a nice holiday with some chess thrown in or whatever).  If they thought other chess events were better value (in whatever sense) they could go to those instead.

Market forces will probably decide whether the event continues or not, but the arguments against it seem odd to me, based either on not liking Maurice Ashley much, or thinking that amateur players are in some way being exploited.

blitzjoker

I've been following this debate since its inception and my impression is:

One side thinks that MC is the greatest thing to happen to chess, and if we all support it, chess will become the new national pastime.

The other side thinks that it is a horrible thing, and if successful, will lead us down the road to perdition.

In reality, it's just a chess tournament whose financial success is questionable.

280 entries  Well, my predictions have been way off....In the topic linked in my post on page one of this topic, I predicted 200-300 entries. I later stated I would be wrong. however, I expected to see 500 entries before January ended at the $880 price. There was a rush of entries last several days, but not enough of a push.

I did say we would know more by January 31, and again by March 31 when the price goes up again. 280 entries means they have given a discount of $33,600. (Or nearly 34 full entry fees). It's actually higher than that. Someone in this topic recently said he got in for $440 as he was one of the first 75 to register for MC #1. How many got in for $440? got me, maybe a bored person can try to figure this out.

I also said I think whatever they end up with in registrations by March 31 will be close to how many actually play. The price hike is too steep and kills the market for those who are trying to collect the funds to play because their financial situation isn't stable. I even learned of a player who posted an ad last year for sponsors. Give him $100, win 10% of the prize. He got in and didn't win a dime.

Here's a question for debate...How many players would have played in the open in MC 1 had the prizes been say $50,000, $25,000, $12,500, and $6,250, and this same structure in all sections, with more consolation prizes for the heavier entered low sections? My guess is Wesley So would still take a crack at that $50,000 prize, and they would have had a few hundred more entries across the board.

Remember, Amy Lee is in this for profit, but she seems headed for another $800,000 loss. It's hard to believe they can hit the break even point of 1,500 registrations. She also wants her legacy (for her children) to be she brought chess to the masses. Well, I would say MC needs to be responsible for a pretty hefty gain in USCF membership. How can this be done? The public needs to put chess on par with high stakes poker. what are the chances of that?

Anyway, entries should trickle in over the next few weeks. Let's see what kind of numbers we see come March 31.

The first 76 participants who registered by march 31st for MC#1 was declared, all on a sudden by Amy Lee, as MC Lifetime VIP members. I and my son are 2 of them. Amongst other benefits, one of that we will be able to enter any MC tournament in our lifetime at 50% of entry fee. This is how my and my son's $440 came in. Remember no one can buy that lifetime vip membership - its a one time declaration that was never pre-announceed, never planned either. So the amount of savings I and my son will have - if both we live and MC continues - is more than any other investement benefit that I could have done in any stock market.

Just trying to explain $440. You can assume we are very small % and hence for practical calculations - you can count $880 in general.

We're in danger of agreeing with each other... 

You do have a great deal. I have my own great deal. I purchased my life membership in the USCF for $200 back in the 1970's. It paid for itself around 1985.