Nights vs Bishops

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Brettster

Is it good to trade bishops for nights in the opening?

I mean really, nights really only control the center. Bishops though, can move across the board faster. Yes nights are unique, but I personally like bishops more.

(although I'd like to have both a night and bishop in the endgame)

Shivsky

There is no guideline in the world that says "trade bishops for "K"nights in the opening.  That is just plain bad advice.

You must value Knights vs. Bishops based on the position, not some thumb-rule you might have mis-heard.

The opening is hardly a static time to make such assumptions anyhow.

The few things that you should keep in mind are :

- Having the bishop pair (when your opponent does not) is worth nearly half a pawn.
- Bishops do best in open positions, Knights prefer closed positions.
- With fewer pieces on the board or with endgame pawns on both sides of the board, the bishop can usually outperform the slower enemy Knight.

chessoholicalien

Normally it's considered a disadvantageous move to swap bishops for knights in the opening phases. Wait to see how useful your bishops will become before you decided to trade them. That often only comes to light in the middlegame.

hazenfelts

it all depends on the position.  Usually an open position would find bishops to be advantageous as they can control a key diagonal whereas a closed position would favour knights as they can hop over pieces.  This may not always be the case though, it all depends on position.  I have to say that personally I would prefer to have two bishops. Although I would prefer 1 knight to one bishops. 

Alphastar18

Shivsky has the best answer.

Elubas

This topic is posted every month and the answer always is "it depends." lol. Though it's true.

Alphastar18
Elubas wrote:

This topic is posted every month and the answer always is "it depends." lol. Though it's true.


That's the only chess advice that always applies: "It depends on the position".

KillaBeez

Rich, no.  Bishops are only better than knights if the bishop pair is present on the board.  But even that depends on the type of position.

Chess_Lobster

Actually this very advice appeared on a website I used when I was just starting to learn:

*  A good chess strategy is to Avoid Exchanging Bishops for Knights Early in the Game.

We have seen that in the early stages of a game the Bishops have a longer range than the Knights, so it is clearly advisable to keep them in the field as long as possible. The disparity between the two pieces gradually tapers off as the game progresses, until in the End Game the Knight is frequently more powerful than the Bishop because its action is not limited to one color of square as is that of the Bishop.

http://www.chesscentral.com/Chess_Strategy_a/201.htm

I don't know the credentials of this site, but I wouldn't dismiss this advice offhand. Of course there are times when a principle must be ignored, but I believe this advice does have merit.

Furthermore, here is a opening principle (from the same site) that seems to be ignored, or unknown, a lot when I play:

 

*  A good chess strategy is to Avoid Pinning the Opponent’s King’s Knight before He has Castled, Especially When You Have Yourself   Castled on the King’s Side.

 

876543Z1

personal preferences apply GM Short being an example of a player who likes bishops and seeks out exchanges accordingly.

I'm not in Shorts league, a world away in fact, but I would say that the relative value of pieces is knight 3 points, bishop 3 points, so in my view they are equal. I've won many games by applying the good knight verses bad bishop theme, on the other hand the strength of a bishop pair can be crushing after a few pawn exchanges.

Elubas
aijp wrote:
Shivsky wrote:

There is no guideline in the world that says "trade bishops for "K"nights in the opening.  That is just plain bad advice.

You must value Knights vs. Bishops based on the position, not some thumb-rule you might have mis-heard.

The opening is hardly a static time to make such assumptions anyhow.

The few things that you should keep in mind are :

- Having the bishop pair (when your opponent does not) is worth nearly half a pawn.


I've heard that. It's odd that GMs are still playing all those book openings in which a B is willingly swapped for a knight. You know, those crazy Ruy Lopez, Nimzoindian, and Rossolimo variations where a pinning bishop responds to a pawn challenge by taking the knight, thereby conceding the bishop pair. It's MADNESS! giving up half a pawn when you could just retreat! I tell you those opening books are going to be rewritten soon. :)


You're kidding, right?

GMoney5097

Does this make the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation "bad?"  If bishops are better than knights...

 

 

G

Brettster
Kepler wrote:
rich wrote:

Put a bishop in the middle of a chess board it covers 13 squares, a knight only does 8.


But a knight can get to every square on the board eventually. A bishop will only ever get to half of those squares. That can be very important.


 yes the night can move to every square on the board, but the chances of that happening without being taken is like 1/82 or something like that

Tricklev

There are no nights in chess, I'd gladly give up nights for bishops, does that mean I'll just have to stay awake during the next night after the match?

 

Ontopic: Knights and bishops are equal, as a beginner you should avoid falling for the idea that bishops are stronger, cause that's something that can really stun your growth as a player.

mosqutip

Why does this topic get re-posted every three days? AND IT'S SPELLED KNIGHT.

rettdaniel

there is really no hard and fast rule whether it is better to exchange knights against bishops in the opening. that would depend on the postions of your pieces.  but experience taught me that knights are effective in the middle game while bishops are dangerous in the end game.  knights move faster, can attack, established post and ward of attacking pawns and other pieces including the queen  early in the game but have to move slowly in the end game because there are a lot of squares to cover to unlike bishops which are lethal in the end game since they cover a lot of squares but have to grind their way out in the middle game.

KillaBeez

rich, you also forget that knights can jump over pieces.  The only problems with a knight in my experience are that it is too slow and cannot triangulate in endings.

Alphastar18
Brettster wrote:
Kepler wrote:
rich wrote:

Put a bishop in the middle of a chess board it covers 13 squares, a knight only does 8.


But a knight can get to every square on the board eventually. A bishop will only ever get to half of those squares. That can be very important.


 yes the night can move to every square on the board, but the chances of that happening without being taken is like 1/82 or something like that


And 9/10 of all statistics are made up.

hd_thoreau

I prefer nights over days