Occam's Razor Supports that Hans Niemann did not cheat against Magnus, or in OTB in general.

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TheBlueBoy

After reading all these comments, the most striking thing is that we've never seen a real true genius emerge to overthrow all chess players. I'm talking about an autistic savant with Asperberger's syndrome. Some of these can recite PI to a hundred thousand digits, and then recite it backward. Luckily (I think) most of these turn towards physics other sciences, but it would be a wonder to see one turn to chess. They say the greatest computer chess rating is about 3500, far higher than Magnus Carlsen. It would be interesting to see a savant with asperger's challenge that. Google it on YouTube. There are a lot of leading scientists who see these child geniuses with Asperger's as the next step on humanity's evolution ladder. 

MorningGlory84
CrusaderKing1 wrote:
MorningGlory84 wrote:

Notice how @CrusaderKing1 is adept at arguing in circles like religious zealots do. "It says so in the Bible."

Your obsession with religion is unhealthy. 

Religion is a secondary issue but due to your low IQ you only have a superficial interpretation of things. My interest is the psychological propensity humans have for revering gods of various kinds. Conspiracists have the same type of brains. They believe an evil cabal (the devil) stands between them and utopia (heaven). If the "devil" can finally be revealed to be the "true" hand behind 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination (for example) then he will be smote and they can enter the kingdom of heaven.

From an evolutionary perspective these traits seem to have been selected for, probably because they provide some kind of survival advantage.

DiogenesDue
CrusaderKing1 wrote:

Tell me how his game against Magnus looked suspicious to you, because top GMs generally disagree that he cheated against Magnus at the Sf. cup. 

Top GMs generally disagree that Magnus played a good game there.  That does not equate to them thinking Hans does not cheat OTB.  Ask those same players how they feel about Niemann's win over Carlsen at the FTX Crypto event. 

It doesn't really matter if Niemann cheated in the Sinquefield Magnus game.  All that matters if whether Niemann is cheating OTB at all in this timeframe, during his ratings rise.

MorningGlory84
TheBlueBoy wrote:

There are a lot of leading scientists who see these child geniuses with Asperger's as the next step on humanity's evolution ladder. 

They possibly would be if the masses valued high intelligence but they don't. They value the next filtered selfie they can upload to Instagram and stuff like the Kardashians. Our political "leaders" from across the spectrum are emotional reactionaries. I would love to be ruled by extremely high IQ cold rationalists but it will never happen because it's not rewarded enough socially in the way superficial charm is.

CrusaderKing1
MorningGlory84 wrote:
CrusaderKing1 wrote:
MorningGlory84 wrote:

Notice how @CrusaderKing1 is adept at arguing in circles like religious zealots do. "It says so in the Bible."

Your obsession with religion is unhealthy. 

Religion is a secondary issue but due to your low IQ you only have a superficial interpretation of things. My interest is the psychological propensity humans have for revering gods of various kinds. Conspiracists have the same type of brains. They believe an evil cabal (the devil) stands between them and utopia (heaven). If the "devil" can finally be revealed to be the "true" hand behind 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination (for example) then he will be smote and they can enter the kingdom of heaven.

From an evolutionary perspective these traits seem to have been selected for, probably because they provide some kind of survival advantage.

Calling someone low IQ repeatedly does not make it true. 

Again, your obsession with bringing religion into non-religious conversations is astounding. 

CrusaderKing1
btickler wrote:
CrusaderKing1 wrote:

Tell me how his game against Magnus looked suspicious to you, because top GMs generally disagree that he cheated against Magnus at the Sf. cup. 

Top GMs generally disagree that Magnus played a good game there.  That does not equate to them thinking Hans does not cheat OTB.  Ask those same players how they feel about Niemann's win over Carlsen at the FTX Crypto event. 

It doesn't really matter if Niemann cheated in the Sinquefield Magnus game.  All that matters if whether Niemann is cheating OTB at all in this timeframe, during his ratings rise.

Then why didn't Magnus withdraw from the Sinquefield tournament before he lost to Hans? If he suspected Hans as a cheater, then why did he play until he lost? Then to add insult to injury, his loss was very likely a fair and square loss.

If Magnus would have withdrawn from tournaments before he lost to Hans, I'd actually probably agree there is some merit to his cries.

However, deciding you won't play someone after you lose is a whole different ball game. 

PawnTsunami
NervesofButter wrote:

How many here heard of or even cared who Hans Moke Niemann was before all this started?  And now suddenly we have a forum full of experts on Niemann, Carlsen, cheating, math, how to post, grammar, religion. 

I prefer the old days when people would actually debate/discuss/argue face to face, when you could actually see people sweating, and stuttering.  Now?  You have to wait for someone to go search something so they appear to be the foremost expert on that subject. 

I cant wait for vacation.

I am waiting for someone to respond saying, "I have been following Hans since the year 2000!"

lfPatriotGames
NervesofButter wrote:
MorningGlory84 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
MorningGlory84 wrote:

I don't understand why anyone is investing too much emotional energy into defending one position or another.

Its the internet.  It gives people something to do while they wait for there welfare check. 

That and the search for purpose in a comfortable but atomised society where material needs are largely met. Arguing over public figures (secular gods) who don't know they exist fills a spiritual void. It can be observed across the internet and is fascinating anthropologically.

How many here heard of or even cared who Hans Moke Niemann was before all this started?  And now suddenly we have a forum full of experts on Niemann, Carlsen, cheating, math, how to post, grammar, religion. 

I prefer the old days when people would actually debate/discuss/argue face to face, when you could actually see people sweating, and stuttering.  Now?  You have to wait for someone to go search something so they appear to be the foremost expert on that subject. 

I cant wait for vacation.

Me. The first I ever heard about him was that video of him complaining about 5 dollars for a charity event. I couldn't believe someone could be that selfish. I know it was a very small event with a very small prize fund, but more importantly it was a chance for him to show good will. Make some good PR.  It seemed like only weeks after that the cheating scandal broke. So when I heard about that I thought "after seeing what kind of person he is, Hans down, he cheated".

rookNoob1982
NervesofButter wrote:

Niemann lost to Robson.  Is his implant failing?  Is he not cheating?  Is the pressure getting to him?  Have aliens tired of him?  Is all the security checks taking its toll? 

Stay tuned...

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/us-championship-2022/6/1/4

 

Don’t you know he’s only cheating if he wins? Even his opponents seem to agree with that. 

DiogenesDue
NervesofButter wrote:

Niemann lost to Robson.  Is his implant failing?  Is he not cheating?  Is the pressure getting to him?  Have aliens tired of him?  Is all the security checks taking its toll? 

Stay tuned...

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/us-championship-2022/6/1/4

I do not understand this attitude.  If you were Niemann, and if you were cheating...would you continue to cheat in this current situation, or would you back it off a while?

"Clearly the Malone gang is not robbing banks, because after the story broke about them, not one single bank has been robbed!"

DiogenesDue
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

rookNoob1982
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

What didn't I get? I was being sarcastic. Unless nervesofbutter was being serious about his implant failing. then yeah, I didn't get it.

rookNoob1982
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

What didn't I get? I was being sarcastic. Unless nervesofbutter was being serious about his implant failing. then yeah, I didn't get it.

Helloooooo....sense of humor....playing around...joking....Is anyone there???

But I knew you were joking, that's why I replied. I thought you were in the Hans isnt cheating camp? Which I agree with.

rookNoob1982
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

What didn't I get? I was being sarcastic. Unless nervesofbutter was being serious about his implant failing. then yeah, I didn't get it.

Helloooooo....sense of humor....playing around...joking....Is anyone there???

But I knew you were joking, that's why I replied. I thought you were in the Hans isnt cheating camp? Which I agree with.

The only camp im in regarding this is the: "This is making chess look bad" camp.  But it was bound to happen at some point.

Okay good to know. I was mislead by your dozens of posts arguing Hans wasn't cheating.

rookNoob1982
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

What didn't I get? I was being sarcastic. Unless nervesofbutter was being serious about his implant failing. then yeah, I didn't get it.

Helloooooo....sense of humor....playing around...joking....Is anyone there???

But I knew you were joking, that's why I replied. I thought you were in the Hans isnt cheating camp? Which I agree with.

The only camp im in regarding this is the: "This is making chess look bad" camp.  But it was bound to happen at some point.

Okay good to know. I was mislead by your dozens of posts arguing Hans wasn't cheating.

Really?  I dont recall ever saying he wasn't cheating.  What i have said is that none of us know.  And i have posted that i dont really care either way.   The only thing im concerned with is how it hurts the game.   I have posted that until proven otherwise I do give him the benefit of the doubt.  That could be taken as i dont think he cheated i guess.

I don't really see how this is hurting the game. Chess is more popular than ever. This has been the best free publicity Chess could have hoped for. It's not like Hans or Magnus invented the possibility of cheating in Chess, they just took it mainstream.

Ziryab
NervesofButter wrote:
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

Gotcha...I treat these things like politicians treat bills they vote on.  I don't really read them.


That’s the proper approach to most forums. If you ever read one of those bills, you’ll understand why members of Congress don’t read them.

wakuvvaku
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
rookNoob1982 wrote:
btickler wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:

Its called Humor.  But that is my fault.  I have to understand that not everyone will get it.

I wrote this in reply to your post after seeing RookNoob "did not get it".  He assumed the side you were on.  People will tend to do that.

What didn't I get? I was being sarcastic. Unless nervesofbutter was being serious about his implant failing. then yeah, I didn't get it.

Helloooooo....sense of humor....playing around...joking....Is anyone there???

But I knew you were joking, that's why I replied. I thought you were in the Hans isnt cheating camp? Which I agree with.

The only camp im in regarding this is the: "This is making chess look bad" camp.  But it was bound to happen at some point.

Okay good to know. I was mislead by your dozens of posts arguing Hans wasn't cheating.

Really?  I dont recall ever saying he wasn't cheating.  What i have said is that none of us know.  And i have posted that i dont really care either way.   The only thing im concerned with is how it hurts the game.   I have posted that until proven otherwise I do give him the benefit of the doubt.  That could be taken as i dont think he cheated i guess.

Handling cheating quietly was what had been done before and it was what really hurt the game. It might have hurt reputation of Hans and Magnus, but the game and (clean) players in general are going to be the beneficiaries in the future. You don't want chess to become cycling in the 90s where everyone was forced to take PEDs if they wanted a fighting chance to compete, because everyone else was doping and nothing would happen even when they were caught.

Jane_Cummings

The Cycling Community must have been fully aware of what was going on back then even in Olympic Cycling. But did they say anything. Their silence on the issue speaks volumes, pun intended. Let’s hope that the Chess Community don’t making this a personal Witch Hunt against one person. 

PawnTsunami
Ziryab wrote:

That’s the proper approach to most forums. If you ever read one of those bills, you’ll understand why members of Congress don’t read them.

Well, to be fair, most members of Congress read at a 1st grade level, so that may have something to do with it.

Asmin12

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