Paul Morphy's Rating>2638

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kindaspongey
dannyhume wrote:

... You got Steinitz, ... in his decrepit old age putting up a strong match against a young Lasker, ...

Steinitz won five, lost ten, and drew four.

kindaspongey
SteamGear wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

[Morphy's] contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1295510

SteamGear wrote: "... That was a double-blindfold game (and quite a game, too!). Morphy's play was near engine-perfect the entire game.

44.Qb7 was a thing of beauty."

The opening: 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d5

Yes, those were the opening moves played. The Paulsen Countergambit.

Sometimes called the Elephant Gambit?

kindaspongey
SteamGear wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

[Morphy's] contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy.

...

SteamGear wrote: "..."

...

... Batgirl wrote an interesting article about Paulsen and his impact on chess:  https://www.chess.com/article/view/louis-paulsen

Know of any titled players who think that Paulsen had done much revolutionizing in 1857?

SteamGear
kindaspongey wrote:

Know of any titled players who think that Paulsen had done much revolutionizing in 1857?

"Paulsen can be regarded as the founder of the modern approach to playing the opening.... His opening ideas taught not only his contemporaries, but many subsequent generations. Several lines he introduced even retain their relevance to the present day and have become tabiyas."

— GM Evgeny Sveshnikov, The Complete French Advance, 2017

 

Next question?

kindaspongey
SteamGear wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

Know of any titled players who think that Paulsen had done much revolutionizing in 1857?

"Paulsen can be regarded as the founder of the modern approach to playing the opening.... His opening ideas taught not only his contemporaries, but many subsequent generations. Several lines he introduced even retain their relevance to the present day and have become tabiyas."

— GM Evgeny Sveshnikov, The Complete French Advance, 2017

Next question?

Where is there a reference to 1857?

SteamGear

What, specifically, is the significance of 1857—a date you introduced into the discussion?

kindaspongey

SteamGear wrote: "What, specifically, is the significance of 1857—a date you introduced into the discussion?"

1857 is when Morphy faced Paulsen in the New York tournament.

SteamGear

Correct.

Your point?

kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote:
SteamGear wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

[Morphy's] contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy.

...

SteamGear wrote: "..."

...

... Batgirl wrote an interesting article about Paulsen and his impact on chess:  https://www.chess.com/article/view/louis-paulsen

Know of any titled players who think that Paulsen had done much revolutionizing in 1857?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

SteamGear

DannyHume stated that Morphy's contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy (which is a true statement).

He didn't specifically reference 1857 as the year in which such revolutions occurred.

Interestingly, such revolutions only occurred after Morphy made his impact on the chess world.

Also interestingly: such revolutionary ideas did not appear before Morphy made his impact on the chess world.

"(Morphy) revealed a thunderous blend of pragmatism, aggression and accurate calculation to the world . . .  His play was the next, more mature stage in the development of chess." — GM Garry Kasparov, My Great Predecessors, Part 1

kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote:
SteamGear wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

[Morphy's] contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy.

...

SteamGear wrote: "..."

...

... Batgirl wrote an interesting article about Paulsen and his impact on chess:  https://www.chess.com/article/view/louis-paulsen

Know of any titled players who think that Paulsen had done much revolutionizing in 1857?

SteamGear wrote: "DannyHume stated that Morphy's contemporaries revolutionized openings and strategy (which is a true statement). ..."

Seems to me that it is of some interest to think about the degree to which Morphy faced that revolutionizing when he played Paulsen in the 1857 New York tournament.

Update from the 2018#3 issue of New in Chess: "... Paulsen … was invited to play in the first American chess congress held in New York in 1857. ... it was only after New York that he began to study opening theory, of which he had been fully unaware while playing Morphy. …" - Hans Renette

kindaspongey
SteamGear wrote:

... "(Morphy) revealed a thunderous blend of pragmatism, aggression and accurate calculation to the world . . .  His play was the next, more mature stage in the development of chess." — GM Garry Kasparov, My Great Predecessors, Part 1

"... Morphy became to millions ... the greatest chess master of all time. But if we examine Morphy's record and games critically, we cannot justify such extravaganza. And we are compelled to speak of it as the Morphy myth. ... Even if the myth has been destroyed, Morphy remains one of the giants of chess history. ..." - GM Reuben Fine

SteamGear
kindaspongey wrote:

"... if we examine Morphy's record and games critically, we cannot justify such extravaganza. And we are compelled to speak of it as the Morphy myth." - GM Reuben Fine

Kasparov did critically examine Morphy's record and games, and, from doing so, said the following things about Morphy:

"brilliant",

"super-genius",

"he had no equal in the world",

"Morphy's sound framework and his wide-ranging tactics already resemble the play of a modern grandmaster. To combat such a hurricane was simply impossible."

— GM Garry Kasparov, My Great Predecessors, Part 1

kindaspongey
[COMMENT DELETED]
Elroch

And what's more, he had style!

It is sad that he tried to leave chess behind but, if what I read is true, he was unable to have a normal life after his great success at the game.

kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote:
SteamGear wrote:

... "(Morphy) revealed a thunderous blend of pragmatism, aggression and accurate calculation to the world . . .  His play was the next, more mature stage in the development of chess." — GM Garry Kasparov, My Great Predecessors, Part 1

"... Morphy became to millions ... the greatest chess master of all time. But if we examine Morphy's record and games critically, we cannot justify such extravaganza. And we are compelled to speak of it as the Morphy myth. ... Even if the myth has been destroyed, Morphy remains one of the giants of chess history. ..." - GM Reuben Fine

XXX

SteamGear wrote: "Kasparov did critically examine Morphy's record and games, and, from doing so, said the following things about Morphy:

'brilliant',

'super-genius',

'he had no equal in the world',

'Morphy's sound framework and his wide-ranging tactics already resemble the play of a modern grandmaster. To combat such a hurricane was simply impossible.'

— GM Garry Kasparov, My Great Predecessors, Part 1"

XXX

Notice the past tense in the last Kasparov sentence and in the "no equal" sentence. Was Kasparov referring to the "next" stage in the development of chess or the last stage?

"... Even if the myth has been destroyed, Morphy remains one of the giants of chess history. ..." - GM Reuben Fine

SteamGear
kindaspongey wrote:

 

Notice the past tense in the last Kasparov sentence and the "no equal" sentence.

Yes, because Kasparov was speaking of the long-deceased Morphy.

To use the present tense when referring to Morphy's 19th-century chess exploits would be an incorrect usage of tense.

SteamGear
Elroch wrote:

And what's more, he had style!

It is sad that he tried to leave chess behind but, if what I read is true, he was unable to have a normal life after his great success at the game.

He certainly did have style. (I'm also of the belief that he had an eidetic memory, which would explain a lot about his chess dominance, and his word-for-word memorization of law books.)

And yes, after he abandoned chess, it seemed to haunt him. He wanted to move on to pursue other things, but the world wouldn't let him.

kindaspongey
[COMMENT DELETED]
batgirl

Unlike with Maroczy, I don't know of a single person who played Paul Morphy after he died.  So, why is Kasparov's use of the past tense be of any particular interest?