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Players that habitually drop pieces

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TheBone1
SensFan33 wrote:
TheBone1 wrote:
SensFan33 wrote:
TheBone1 wrote:
gbidari wrote:
BlueKnightShade wrote:

Well, the more skilled the player is the less often he drops pieces. When he gets stronger he drops a tempo or two, or he drops an important square. Or he drops a forced winning continuation in a position that appear as if it is a drawn position when it is not. Or he drops a stale mate combination or he drops a good defensive move in a difficult situation.

The point where a player never drops anything would be the point where he never lose a game even playing against the world champion or against the best computer software available...

You're right, all players make errors or inaccuracies, even if they're minor. But isn't the ability to stop dropping pieces within everyone's control? It's really just taking the time to do a spot check isn't it? Much like double checking your punctuation before turning in that important essay to your teacher, avoiding the most primative of errors is within everyone's control.


Some people are good at grammar.  Some people are good at chess.  Some are good at both.  Some are good at neither.  The trick is to learn how not to look down upon those that are not as good as you are at any given skill.  As well to know what is important in life.


As I've said several times now, it has nothing to do with being good. I could teach someone the game of chess in an hour and a half, and if they care enough, they can trivially play one or more games immediately without leaving a single piece en prise.


Pure ignorance.  You are projecting your own bias by saying "if they care enough"...  That is like saying if one care's enough, they could be Einstein, or be an astronaut, or whatever.  There are factors beyond any individual's control, and one of them is the sheer brainpower to compete with intellectuals such as yourself.


Clearly being an astronaut or being Einstein are on the same level in their relative fields as it is to play a game of chess without making a move that accidentally lets your opponent capture a piece on their next move without being recaptured.

Seriously, do you guys actually think it's rocket science to look at a maximum of 16 pieces and check if any of them are being attacked at all, and then if they are, making sure you defend them if possible?


Sens, you are correct.  Clearly the OP was speaking specifically about hanging pieces.  And you are sticking to that topic.  However, if we assume that not hanging pieces is one of the most important early lessons in chess, and you claim all one has to do is "care", then it seem to me like the obvious extrapolation is that all one needs to do is "care" enough to continue to learn, and "care" enough to eventually become the best in their field (chess, physics, rocket science).  If there is any intellectual reason that one could not achieve this despite their "caring", than it is logical to assume that simply "caring" cannot alone solve a person's habit of dropping pieces.

Loomis
SensFan33 wrote:

Seriously, do you guys actually think it's rocket science to look at a maximum of 16 pieces and check if any of them are being attacked at all, and then if they are, making sure you defend them if possible?


It's probably about the same level of difficulty as looking at your opponent's pieces and taking one if you're attacking it and it's not defended. So maybe you'd like to explain why you played Kf3 instead of Rxg3 in the diagrammed position. Feel free to describe yourself with all the adjectives you've been using to describe anyone who's ever hung a piece in a chess game.

waffllemaster

Maybe something worth considering... I've played tournament games where I'm honestly trying my best, but in spite of my effort (and skill, that which is it) I have made simple tactical or positional blunders that "I should have known better."  I haven't killed myself by the way because I know everyone eventually has to deal with this in one game or another.

I think this aspect of chess is valuable and constantly teaches us humility.  Everyone makes that "stupid" mistake from time to time.  What I'm trying to say is I can't imagine an absolute beginner not hanging pieces even if they "care enough."  And more importantly this "either you get it or  you're stupid/lazy" attitude seems to fly in the face of what chess teaches us all at a fundamental level.

ivandh
SensFan33 wrote:

As I've said several times now, it has nothing to do with being good. I could teach someone the game of chess in an hour and a half, and if they care enough, they can trivially play one or more games immediately without leaving a single piece en prise.


Would you hire a chess coach who said that all the players who failed to improve under his direction "didn't care enough"? Wouldn't you suspect that he is just making excuses for being a stupid/lazy coach?

clms_chess
ReasonableDoubt wrote:

I half agree with what the OP says, although I fully disagree with the overall tone and message of the post.  It is true that if you spend an hour or two going over your move, you should never make any direct tactical mistakes (there are an average of 30-40 moves in a chess position, that gives you plenty of time for all of them!) unless they are very difficult to see.  What I don't agree with is that anyone who drops pieces doesn't care enough or isn't trying hard enough.  As a habitual piece dropper, I'd say that it's because of lack of focus/discipline or time pressure, one of the two.  The reason that I drop pieces in tournaments is because of either lack of focus or discipline.  When I'm playing for something important (championship, large amount of money, etc.) I just can't focus, no matter how hard I try.  It's not lack of effort or laziness - it's inability to focus under pressure.  The reciprocal is when I know that I'm playing an important game and I desperately attempt to play as carefully as possible and not make any mistakes and I end up in time pressure by move 30 and hanging pieces left and right.  The other reason that I drop pieces is lack of discipline.  I see something that looks like a very strong move and in the heat of the moment throw 30 moves of sitting on my hands to acquire a won position out of the window in excitement and lose the game.  Anyway, my point is that just because titled players have better focus, better discipline, and better performance under pressure than us patzers doesn't mean that we aren't trying to improve and trying to not make mistakes - it's a gross generalization to say so.  Even Kramnik missed a mate in one!  In other words what I'm saying is that we're all human and it's ridiculous to assume that difficulty with discipline and focus at the chessboard are a result of lack of effort.


 Nailed it.

waffllemaster
ReasonableDoubt wrote:

I half agree with what the OP says, although I fully disagree with the overall tone and message of the post . . . Anyway, my point is that just because titled players [are better] doesn't mean that [patzers] aren't trying to improve and trying to not make mistakes - it's a gross generalization to say so . . . it's ridiculous to assume that difficulty with discipline and focus at the chessboard are a result of lack of effort.


+1

Like just about every post that's disagreeing, the basic idea is fine, but I completely disagree with the tone.

d4e4
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electricpawn

Fifteen letter word for a pompous posuer who makes comments on a chess site but refuses to play?

trysts

Wow, I read this entire thread, for free!??!!!Laughing

Every time I hang a piece, I do call myself "stupid". It simply takes no skill, or "gift" to make sure I'm not hanging a piece. I've never, ever said someone else is "stupid" for hanging a piece. Hell, sometimes I don't even notice! But, when I do notice and take the free piece, I still have to win the game, and that's easier said than done. So, when my opponent hangs a piece, it gives me only momentary relief in the game.

 I don't really know what to think about the person who chronically hangs pieces. But, they must get frustrated, and call themselves names, without really needing extra input in that area.Wink

d4e4
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ivandh

d4e4
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electricpawn
ChessStrategist wrote:
electricpawn wrote:

Fifteen letter word for a pompous posuer who makes comments on a chess site but refuses to play?


 You just continue to embarass yourself, don't you chubby?


"Chubby" is one of the other people to whom you've ingratiated yourself. A fellow from Canada, remember? I'm not embarassed to point out the fact that you talk like an expert but don't play. You're apparently implying that you're not embarassed by this fact either.

d4e4
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ivandh

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electricpawn

You have the ability to look at some of my "games" because I'm not affraid to admit that I'm not a GM candidate. I play because I enjoy it, not to impress the emotionally disturbed. "At your age," you must still get off on pretending that you're something that you're not. Why else would you post your rather strident comments in the forums while refusing to play games ...on a chess website designed for that purpose! You've had the opportunity to evaluate my weaknesses. Just give me the word, and I'll unblock you so you can demonstrate your phenomenal chess abilities by playing me a game!

d4e4
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electricpawn

I'd tell you to put a cork in it, coward, but I don't want to think about where that cork would go!

d4e4
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