Playing like a GM but knowing no more than the very basic essential rules

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CodeLearnerL

Is the title possible? 

Imagine you are a starting beginner. You don't know any openings or strategies. You don't know how many points each piece is worth. You have 0 training or coaching. All you know is how the pieces move and capture, check, checkmate, and stalemate. Somehow, you are playing a 2000+ rated player on chess.com. Your opponent knows all kinds of openings, has a lot of coaching and training, and knows a lot you don't know. 

Could you beat him by analyzing the full board and thinking very carefully before each move short-term and long-term in the game? Could you win by just strategically thinking and treating chess like a war board game? 

What are your thoughts?

llama
HKP101 wrote:

Is the title possible? 

Imagine you are a starting beginner. You don't know any openings or strategies. You don't know how many points each piece is worth. You have 0 training or coaching. All you know is how the pieces move and capture, check, checkmate, and stalemate. Somehow, you are playing a 2000+ rated player on chess.com. Your opponent knows all kinds of openings, has a lot of coaching and training, and knows a lot you don't know. 

Could you beat him by analyzing the full board and thinking very carefully before each move short-term and long-term in the game? Could you win by just strategically thinking and treating chess like a war board game? 

What are your thoughts?

You'd have better luck playing random moves, because when you play randomly every move is possible (including GM moves happy.png)

When you "analyze the full board and think very carefully" you're restrained by your own mind. There are certain moves you will never consider to be good. Sometimes that means there is a 100% chance you will not play the GM level move.

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That was more of a theoretical answer... the more practical answer is simply "no"

Chess on TV and movies is a prop to show a character is intelligent, but chess in real life is a skill. So it's the same as someone with no training or practice at the guitar, or fixing cars, playing football, or painting pictures.

It's like asking "can someone who doesn't know one word of French speak French better than a native speaker? The answer is simply no happy.png

CodeLearnerL

That makes sense. You've got a point.

llama

That's a little depressing I guess, because I know for me, when I was new, I liked the idea that I might find a brilliant move if I worked hard enough.

But that's still true. Especially in dynamic positions where there is a lot of attacking going on. In those positions working hard, calculating a lot, and being imaginative, can help you find amazing moves sometimes.

But these are single moves, or a small group of a few moves, not a whole game happy.png

KeSetoKaiba
llama wrote:
HKP101 wrote:

Is the title possible? 

Imagine you are a starting beginner. You don't know any openings or strategies. You don't know how many points each piece is worth. You have 0 training or coaching. All you know is how the pieces move and capture, check, checkmate, and stalemate. Somehow, you are playing a 2000+ rated player on chess.com. Your opponent knows all kinds of openings, has a lot of coaching and training, and knows a lot you don't know. 

Could you beat him by analyzing the full board and thinking very carefully before each move short-term and long-term in the game? Could you win by just strategically thinking and treating chess like a war board game? 

What are your thoughts?

You'd have better luck playing random moves, because when you play randomly every move is possible (including GM moves )

When you "analyze the full board and think very carefully" you're restrained by your own mind. There are certain moves you will never consider to be good. Sometimes that means there is a 100% chance you will not play the GM level move.

---

That was more of a theoretical answer... the more practical answer is simply "no"

Chess on TV and movies is a prop to show a character is intelligent, but chess in real life is a skill. So it's the same as someone with no training or practice at the guitar, or fixing cars, playing football, or painting pictures.

It's like asking "can someone who doesn't know one word of French speak French better than a native speaker? The answer is simply no

Well explained. However, one can get relatively decent chess play without knowing much opening theory at all - chess "opening principles" is a great way to get a playable middlegame when you know little to no opening theory - this is a great asset for complete beginners.

Of course, you will still need to know the value of pieces and a little more than the original post asked hypothetically. 

This link will help you with opening principles if this is new to you. If it isn't, then feel free to share it with someone who it is new for happy.png

https://www.chess.com/blog/KeSetoKaiba/opening-principles-again

CodeLearnerL

Thank you for the information.

LeiJChess

Yes, but speaking hypothetically of course. 

CodeLearnerL

There isn't really a correct answer.

KeSetoKaiba
Waffleless wrote:

I would actually argue that, though it is not likely, if a person is intelligent enough, they might be able to play chess more like an engine as opposed to a human player. However, I don't believe that type of intelligence will ever exist in humans on Earth. 

Kind of doubtful honestly. Engines play like engines and humans play like humans. In fact, engines often fall short of understanding what a human player can sometimes see because engines tend to "think" in calculation and evaluation whereas human players tend to think in "patterns" and "plans."

If someone was really intelligent (and was a kind of natural with chess), then they might play really well, but highly unlikely they would play in the style of an engine; an intelligent chess prodigy would "discover" plans and patterns as they play - chess engines do not play this way and strong human players can sometimes tell when a move looks "computer-ish."

AtaChess68
Euh, I think there ís a good answer and Ilama gave it 😃
2Kd21-0

Theoretically It might be possible I mean the engine AlphaZero didn’t know anything except the basic rules and It just played against itself multiple times (by multiple I mean about millions of times.) Theoretically it might be possible but the caveat is that it would take a lot longer reach GM levels than just studying and committing to chess would.

Tja_05

I got quite troubled when I read the title. Glad to know that this is an honest question.

Tja_05

As it happens, llama makes a very good point.