Pros and cons of chess

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Avatar of Elroch

It is interesting to compare the actions in a forum to those on a chessboard. On the chessboard, the fundamental thing that gives the game order and makes it interesting is that that we all know exactly how the pieces are permitted to move. In a forum, the rules of conduct are intended to have an analogous effect. For example, there is a rule on pretty much every forum against personal attacks and insults towards other participants, which makes discussions much more constructive. But like a chess player who insists on knocking the opponents pieces off the board between moves, there is always someone who delights in the freedom of ignoring such rules completely. I imagine such people never realise how immature it makes them look.

Avatar of manavendra

Language functions not only as a communication system for a group but also as a value system which defines the mental life of the Chess.com members here and thus is a prime contributor to stupidity. On the positive side, language obviously makes it possible for people to discuss problems, processes and phenomena of which they are consciously aware. On the other hand, language also (and much more subtly) affects the process of perception and makes it so ambiguous that people can accept clear discrepancies between their beliefs and actions in many important, ego-defining situations.

With perception rendered so ambiguous and subjective, stupidity is invited, if not actually promoted, as people usually can find some verbal framework in which they may rationalize their behavior and some scapegoat or excuse to explain away their failures. Thus, language is an obstacle not only to objectivity but also to cooperation among diverse groups. Worst of all, language keeps people from understanding what they, themselves, are doing.

With everyone using the same biased language, it is unlikely that members could develop original, self-correcting ideas. Hence, it is difficult for an insider to form and usually stupid of him to offer an objective, critical analysis of his reference group, whatever it may be. Any attempt to do so would most likely be regarded as heresy and the critic shunned or dismissed as a threat to group integrity. (In fact, the only thing more aggravating to a group than a critic is an idealist who lives up to its stated creed.)

People indulging in groupthink find themselves not only invincible but invariably right according to their own standards. This presumption of inherent morality usually means that no one in the isolated group will question its basic beliefs. Thus, members are likely simply to ignore ethical and moral consequences of their acts, since they assume they are right and what they are trying to accomplish is obviously good. Of course, if actions against an out-group are under consideration, the enemy is stereotypically viewed as evil, weak and stupid and is accordingly referred to in disparaging terminology.

Avatar of manavendra
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of Elroch
MrNimzoIndian wrote:

I believe the appeal of chess is that it gives us a chance to control what happens in microcosm when we can't in the "real" world.


I think the above comment made earlier on is the most perceptive one in this discussion. Chess has a number of attributes that most of life doesn't.

  • Complete knowledge - we have access to all relevant information
  • Complete determinism - no random element at all
  • Completely known and understood rules
  • Fairness

These are some of the things that make it so appealing, especially to people who have the intellectual capability to play in a logical and knowledgeable manner.

Having said that, I very much enjoy poker, which fails both the first two points, but which is also entirely fair and precisely defined. If one thinks in terms of expected results (in the statisical sense) and the long term, rather than an individual hand (where someone can play badly but "luck out") it has similar appeal.

Avatar of Elroch

@tonydal, you might find the reason in my post #92

Avatar of manavendra
Elroch wrote:
MrNimzoIndian wrote:

I believe the appeal of chess is that it gives us a chance to control what happens in microcosm when we can't in the "real" world.


I think the above comment made earlier on is the most perceptive one in this discussion. Chess has a number of attributes that most of life doesn't.


IN CHESS WE TRUST

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
Elroch wrote:

tonydal, with regard to more than one of your earlier posts, I encourage you to read and respect the chess.com site rules.


He just says whatever he wants, then deletes the comment so you can't report it. He did that to me, so I blocked him. A lot of people on here suck up to him because he has a title. Perhaps that's why he thinks he can get away with so much.

Avatar of Elroch

Are you sure? So you believe his post complaining about the deletions was to cover his tracks? I assumed an administrator had deleted his posts after I reported him.

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
Elroch wrote:

Are you sure? So you believe his post complaining about the deletions was to cover his tracks? I assumed an administrator had deleted his posts after I reported him.


 If that happens, it will say moderated. It least that's what it said when it happened to me once. If you delete it yourself, it will just say comment deleted.

Avatar of Elroch

I will pass this information to chess.com as well.

Avatar of Crazychessplaya

Con - "if you know" and similar distractions

Avatar of bigpoison
woodshover wrote:
Elroch wrote:

tonydal, with regard to more than one of your earlier posts, I encourage you to read and respect the chess.com site rules.


He just says whatever he wants, then deletes the comment so you can't report it. He did that to me, so I blocked him. A lot of people on here suck up to him because he has a title. Perhaps that's why he thinks he can get away with so much.


Folks don't "suck up to him 'cause he has a title."  Folks enjoy his particular brand of skepticism, and the limerick delivery helps out, too.

Avatar of Conflagration_Planet
bigpoison wrote:
woodshover wrote:
Elroch wrote:

tonydal, with regard to more than one of your earlier posts, I encourage you to read and respect the chess.com site rules.


He just says whatever he wants, then deletes the comment so you can't report it. He did that to me, so I blocked him. A lot of people on here suck up to him because he has a title. Perhaps that's why he thinks he can get away with so much.


Folks don't "suck up to him 'cause he has a title."  Folks enjoy his particular brand of skepticism, and the limerick delivery helps out, too.


 If you insist.

Avatar of Phobetrix
Elroch wrote:

Are you sure? So you believe his post complaining about the deletions was to cover his tracks? I assumed an administrator had deleted his posts after I reported him.


Oh, oh, ouch! What misdemenaor did you report him of? Did you get hurt?Cry

Avatar of trysts
woodshover wrote:
bigpoison wrote:
woodshover wrote:
Elroch wrote:

tonydal, with regard to more than one of your earlier posts, I encourage you to read and respect the chess.com site rules.


He just says whatever he wants, then deletes the comment so you can't report it. He did that to me, so I blocked him. A lot of people on here suck up to him because he has a title. Perhaps that's why he thinks he can get away with so much.


Folks don't "suck up to him 'cause he has a title."  Folks enjoy his particular brand of skepticism, and the limerick delivery helps out, too.


 If you insist.


Tonydal is quite funny, woodshover. But, no doubt some people, sometimes, treat the titled players with more respect due, or not I assume, because we are on a chess site, and because some people, sometimes are like that. You should know which one's do it by now. But, I put a lot of weight in wit, as the witless grow like weeds in this world.

Avatar of Elroch

Phobetrix, I am sure that there are those who think there should be no restriction on insults in forums, just like there are those who think it is ok to discard their fag packets and empty cans in the street, but it is chess.com who decided (like virtually every other forum on the Internet) to ban personal insults and attacks. I fully support this, as such actions have negative value.

Avatar of trysts

http://goingconcern.com/_old/2009/11/11/the-cowardly-lion.jpg

Avatar of monumentaldad

I play chess for thefun of it.  Sure I spend a lot of time doing it, but I find it relaxing.  If it ceases to be relaxing, then I will have to find something else to do.  I could compare it to playing golf( which I haven't done in years)-  if I start to know where the ball is going every time I hit it,. what fun would that be?

Avatar of Elroch

I would hypothesise that most people who habitually insult others in forums would not do it if they were at arms length, for obvious reasons.

Avatar of Lampman

Why not just answer the question and let somebody else have a go at answering it?

Elroch - I guess that your quite reasonable question / discussion has now been spoilt by comments being misinterpreted.

Can we keep to the topic please? If you want to insult each other, open a seperate thread called 'Insults'.