'Psychologic' - amazing chess variant

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camter

So checkmate is a VERY rare result, and the game is thus probably very long, as you only have one legal move is not very likely.

Am I correct, or is there a strategy to reduce the opponent's choices? 

And if the position has plenty of choices,  resignation becomes very unlikely.

AnnChess2

No , the game is not too long. I don't think it is longer than an average chess game.

Resignation decision rather  depends not on the number of choices in a position, but on a position evaluation.

 

It's true that there should be two checkmates available to checkmate but the condition of winning in case of opponent having single move more than makes up for that.

evert823

Anyway I'd like to try a game but I'm not that strong in general.

AnnChess2

Good then let's play

evert823

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess960-chess-variants/psychologic-annchess2---evertvb

McGoohan

Different pawn promotions count as different moves?

evert823
McGoohan wrote:

Different pawn promotions count as different moves?

In refusal chess it does.

HGMuller

I thought this variant was called 'Veto Chess'.

 

It strikes me sa illogical that after Qxf7 you would be considered checkmated. It doesn't seem you are even in check, because you can veto the Queen move that would capture the King. So it seems there is an extra rule here that you cannot veto King captures.

It also seems illogical that not having a second move would always make you lose. If you are not in check, not having a legal move is usually stalemate.

McGoohan

I thought this variant was called 'Protest Chess'.

 

If you have ever played Chess then you have wished that either you or your opponent did not make a certain move. The ability to take back a move in Chess is usually limited to handicap games and even then the number of "take-backs" is limited. Protest Chess gives each person the "right" to protest each move.  While you may think that this "protest" feature will make for "easier" games, be warned .......

 

Protest Chess will "tax" your chess skills and create new thinking patterns.

 

Rules of Protest Chess (PC) by Franz Patocka and Guenter Haika

 

  1. The general FIDE rules of chess apply.

 

Note: Impossible or disallowed move such as castling across a square controlled by the opponent remain impossible or disallowed in PC.. We do play Protest CHESS after all, not Protest Monte.

 

  1. After each move the opponent may ("may", not "must"!) protest once against the transmitted move.

 

Note: This means ONE option to protest PER MOVE.

 

Note 2: When promoting a pawn, the opponent may either protest the move itself, which

means the pawn cannot be promoted in the alternate move, or against the piece chosen for promotion, which means the pawn must promote, but an alternate promotion piece must be chosen.

 

  1. Notation of a protest should be as such: The vetoed move is to be repeated in [square parentheses] and marked by a capitalized "P".

 

Example: Transmitted move: 1.e4 Protesting reply: 1.[e4 P] Action to be taken by White: Go study another opening!

 

  1. No protest can be filed against a protest.

 

Note: If after the opponent's protest one is left without legal alternate moves, the game is lost. Tough luck, pal!

 

Example: The white Queen captures the pawn h7, checking the Kh8. Black plays KxQh7. White replies [KxQh7 P]. If now Black has no other option to remove the white Queen, he is left without a move and thus mated.

 

  1. As soon as a player transmits a move in reply to an original move of the opponent, the right to protest against the opponents original move is forfeited.

 

Note: But of course the player has the right to protest the next move, and also the right to forfeit the right to protest again for the next move..

 

  1. Transmitting optional continuations is prohibited.

 

Note: But of course. It's no fun if a player receives a twenty page analysis with all the possible protests / non-protests / alternates .. blablabla.

vickalan
Hi AnneChess2 and anyone else who understands this game. Let me know if the strategy described below makes sense for best play:
 
1. player A names the best move he/she can find.
2. player B tries to determine if A named the best move possible. If yes. B says "No" and then A will name another move which is 2nd best or worse (whatever is found).
If A did NOT name the best move possible, B can then accept the move (going to step 3), or still say "No". Player B might say "No"  if he/she thinks A cannot find the best move, and will actually return with an even worse move.
3. and 4. (mirror image of steps 1 and 2 for the next player).
 
With Best Play, this would be a game of chess with every move being the 2nd best possible. BUT, chess has "trillions" of games, so every move being the 2nd best will still be a very good game. (like opening with d4 instead of e4, which even today no one can prove which is better).
 
So in its Ultimate Form, this will be almost exactly the same as chess. So I have an idea to make this variant more drastically different:
Each player can move TWO pieces per turn (any normal chess moves), as follows:
1) Player A names his or her TWO moves.
2) Player B can say yes or no.
If B says "No", then Player A has to make completelly different moves.  It must be TWO completelly different pieces. The first two named pieces must remain where they are.
3 and 4) (mirror image of steps 1 and 2)
 
Any thoughts? Anyone have time for a game?
 
DoctorKraken42

Hmm. Aside from 960, this is probably the chess variant I'd be most willing to play. Very interesting

vickalan

The normal version, or my double-move version?

I haven't thought through the double move version yet so I'm ready to hear why it would or wouldn't work.frustrated.png

McGoohan

@vickalan The strategy is quite different from classic chess! It is not about the best or second best move. It is about creating a situation in which one has a very dangerous move (for example, a direct matte threat), and therefore can make another, very unpleasant move which can not be rejected. I already have some experience with this variation and it is a very dialectical and complex game, chess in square. An extra complication with a double-move version I consider unnecessary.

cashcow8

That makes the game interesting as I can put a piece en-prise if there's only one way for you to capture it as I can reject such a move.

 

vickalan

I was curious how a computer would play in this variant. Obviously that would take a little more work than normal because if you reject a move, you have to find the computer's next best move. And the computer decides to accept or reject your moves by checking if you played the best move or not (as rated by chess, not this variant).

So I analyzed the game (for a few moves) recently played by AnnChess2 and  EvertVB  and this is what I found:

 

(X) means the move was rejected. computer ratings are based on chess (not psychologic chess)

   white    black
1. e4   c5(X)e5  (...c5 is +.37. White rejects it. e5 played instead. +.30. Not a big difference)
2. Nf3   Nc6      (both good moves. nothing rejected. there is other good play)
3. d4   e5xd4    (both good moves. nothing rejected. there is other good play)
4. Qxd4
White takes pawn knowing ...Nxd4 can be rejected. Computer would not have played this thinking queen will be captured. Computer calculates best play is Nxd4, capturing the same piece. I can't tell if there is a difference in the game status, and continuing from this move will teach nothing because it's now a different game).
 
Continuing the game as it was actually played:
4...Bc5 (human play)(+3.85. Computer calculates white has a strong lead, so would not have played this.
Computer plays ...Nxd4 (-7.46, very strong black lead) but of course this will be rejected. So the next best move is ...Nf6 (-0.22, an approximate tie).
White has two pieces threatened, and must parry this attack. Again I can't tell if there is a difference in the game status between human and computer play.
 
Well, I stopped my analysis here, because I wasn't learning much. The computer doesn't play the same as a human, but I couldn't detect that the computer's position was ever worse than a humans. On the other hand, I only analyzed four moves.