Purposefully dragging a game out in a drawn position

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IMKeto
Indoda wrote:

Hi all-

I'm playing a game https://www.chess.com/daily/game/229864454 that has reached a drawn position.  It's the Philidor rook and pawn endgame, one of the most well-known positions in all of chess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philidor_position

I've offered my opponent a draw 3 times, each after making a move...only to be refused each time.  In order to demonstrate that I knew how to defend this drawn position, I sent the above link.   A bit later, I received this message:


"First off buddy, you don't need to send me some crappy link about Philidor, I am sure you know that many weak players have lost such a drawn ending.

Secondly, if you knew anything about chess etiquette, you'd know that its ONLY the right of the player with the material advantage to offer a draw in drawn positions (do you really think I can't get a draw whenever I want?).

Secondly, you would know that after offering a draw you shouldn't then offer another one? Of course you don't.

All you have now done by sending me that link is ensure that I will drag this game out for as long as humanly possible."


I can easily ignore the arrogance and vindictiveness, but these two statements do cause me concern:


1.) He's says that "I have no right to make a draw offer" and that it's "ONLY the right of the player with the material advantage to offer a draw in drawn positions"
Is this true?

2.) He now intends to "drag this game out for as long as humanly possible"...
Isn't stalling/quitting a game bad manners?
I suspect it's probably against any existing friendly/good-play etiquette or policy...

Is there anything I can do ?

Its considered cheating to discuss an ongoing game.

Jenium

I am afraid I agree with most of your opponent's points:

1. He is not obliged to accept your offer and has the right to test if you really can defend that position. Knowing that it is a theoretical drawn and drawing are two different animals.

2. I disagree that only the player with the material advantage should offer the draw. If you are 100% confident that you will draw then a material advantage isn't an advantage at all, and you should offer a draw.

3. Sending a CM who is 700 points higher rated a link with the "Philidor position" is slighty rude, so i can understand his reaction.

4. Yes, it is considered bad etiquette to offer a draw twice ore more times in a row.

Jenium
Jenium wrote:

I am afraid I agree with most of your opponent's points:

1. He is not obliged to accept your offer and has the right to test if you really can defend that position. Knowing that it is a theoretical drawn and drawing are two different animals.

2. I disagree that only the player with the material advantage should offer the draw. If you are 100% confident that you will draw then a material advantage isn't an advantage at all, and you should offer a draw.

3. Sending a CM who is 700 points higher rated a link with the "Philidor position" is slighty rude, so i can understand his reaction.

4. Yes, it is considered bad etiquette to offer a draw twice or more times in a row.

 

Indoda

I certainly understand a player's right to continue the game whenever/however he wants.  I'm not arguing that.

In the event that a player breaches this unwritten 'etiquette' (which as far as I know is neither official nor well documented, and with which I was until now unaware), I just don't believe the proper course of action is rudeness followed by extension of the game 'as long as humanly possible'... out of spite.

Numquam

I would say dragging a game out as long as possible is bad etiquette too in correspondence chess. Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

In any case it doesn't look like that CM is doing that. He doesn't try to keep rooks on the board as long as possible or delay advancing his pawn.

Ziryab
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, as in this case.

Numquam
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, as in this case.

I don't understand. The CM continued because he thought that Indoda could go wrong. 

Ziryab
Numquam wrote:
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, as in this case.

I don't understand. The CM continued because he thought that Indoda could go wrong. 

 

My point is that the OP's opponent knew that he was playing for two results, a win or a draw. The OP, on the other hand, was playing for a draw with a slight possibility of going wrong and losing.

The opponent did not play on because he thought he could win. He played on because there was a slight chance, and we presume because the OP became bellicose in his insistence that the game is a draw.

DiogenesDue
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:
Indoda wrote:

I had no idea that some high rated players were so 'thin-skinned'.

 

The more boorish one's own behavior, the more "thin-skinned" others may seem in response.

Nicely said, and something more than the OP could benefit from.

Numquam
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, as in this case.

I don't understand. The CM continued because he thought that Indoda could go wrong. 

 

My point is that the OP's opponent knew that he was playing for two results, a win or a draw. The OP, on the other hand, was playing for a draw with a slight possibility of going wrong and losing.

The opponent did not play on because he thought he could win. He played on because there was a slight chance, and we presume because the OP became bellicose in his insistence that the game is a draw.

That is exactly what I said. Please read my post again carefully before assuming things. I didn't say that the CM thought that he was going to win.

Ziryab
Numquam wrote:
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, ...

Please read my post again carefully before assuming things. 

 

I wasn't disagreeing with your overall point. I was taking issue with one sentence. I read your whole post before commenting. 

I still object to any sentence that asserts the belief that one can win is the only reason for playing on. Players should play on if they think they can win, if they think they can draw, or even if they know they are going to lose, but they do not yet understand how that's going to happen.

Numquam
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:
Ziryab schreef:
Numquam wrote:

Players should only continue if they really believe that they can win.

 

Or draw, ...

Please read my post again carefully before assuming things. 

 

I wasn't disagreeing with your overall point. I was taking issue with one sentence. I read your whole post before commenting. 

I still object to any sentence that asserts the belief that one can win is the only reason for playing on. Players should play on if they think they can win, if they think they can draw, or even if they know they are going to lose, but they do not yet understand how that's going to happen.

If both players see no possibility to win, then there is no point in continuing the game. Why would they keep on playing if they both believe that the best result is a draw?

If only one player sees possibilities to win, then his opponent has no choice other than to continue playing unless he wants to resign.

drmrboss

In chess, you must keep playing if your opponent disagreed draw. Even if there is K+R vs K+R, if your opponent would like to keep playing, you must keep playing, or resign.

Your opponent did not do anything wrong.(rules and regulations of chess)

Draw offer and acceptance can be done in agreement by both players, in any position. (I think after 10 moves of opening)

woton
Numquam wrote:

If both players see no possibility to win, then there is no point in continuing the game. Why would they keep on playing if they both believe that the best result is a draw?..."

 

Interesting question, but it happens.  Some players like to play the game to completion.  Some just like to antagonize their opponent, etc.  

I currently have a Daily game that was proceeding at several moves per day.  The game is now a book draw.  My opponent refused a draw offer and is using the full time control to make each move.  As I said earlier, such is life.

gertgybels

Somehow I have a feeling something else is going on.
Anyway, you are just registered for a month and already beating a CM. Impressive ... meh.png

Hoi Indoda, spreek je Nederlands ou tu parle Français?

IMKeto
gertgybels wrote:

Somehow I have a feeling something else is going on.
Anyway, you are just registered for a month and already beating a CM. Impressive ...

Hoi Indoda, spreek je Nederlands ou tu parle Français?

I didn't want to be the first to bring it up, but...

I don't expect that account to be around long.

Indoda

@gertybels You better take a 2nd look at the game if you somehow think I'm winning...

@IMBacon I see you don't play chess here anymore, so... what do you do other than lurk around insinuating others are cheating?  That's reprehensible IMO.

IMKeto
Indoda wrote:

@gertybels You better take a 2nd look at the game if you somehow think I'm winning...

@IMBacon I see you don't play chess here anymore, so... what do you do other than lurk around insinuating others are cheating?  That's reprehensible IMO.

Just gave my opinion of which i very well could be wrong.  But experience tells me im probably right. 

Indoda
IMBacon wrote:
Indoda wrote:

@gertybels You better take a 2nd look at the game if you somehow think I'm winning...

@IMBacon I see you don't play chess here anymore, so... what do you do other than lurk around insinuating others are cheating?  That's reprehensible IMO.

Just gave my opinion of which i very well could be wrong.

I'm actually grateful, you'be given me the motivation to see how the 'Report User' feature works.  I also invite any and all examination of my games.

Indoda

The fact is I'm 64 years old, recently retired and getting back into chess after a long long absence.  The last time I played competitively was when I was 19, and stopped with a USCF rating around 1900.  But you're right, my account may not be around very long because I'll likely be seeking something different... a fun and friendly platform, without the likes of you.