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Question for OTB TDs

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TheOldReb

At my most recent OTB event one of the pre-registered players didnt show up . He didn't bother to call and inform the TD ( or email him )  that he wouldnt be coming so he was paired and his opponent received a forfeit win as the result .  I have noted that this happens fairly frequently and my question is what can be done to prevent this or to " punish " the transgressor ? What are the options ?  

TheOldReb
kaynight wrote:

Just get over it and move on.

Trolls will not be tolerated in my threads .

Comrade_Jackal

I believe it is not that uncommon to hand out a disqualification and even ban that player from the tournament for minimum of a couple of years. I believe they also do this at Tata Steel Tournament, whenever some people think they are more important than others and do not show up without informing anyone they will enter the 'blacklist'. Although I don't really know how strict they are with these kind of blacklists.

TheOldReb

Yes, I think FIDE is more professional in such matters than USCF but you refer to a different type of tourney as well , with professionals playing . I think the pros should be held to a higher standard than amateur players . 

I_Am_Second
Reb wrote:

At my most recent OTB event one of the pre-registered players didnt show up . He didn't bother to call and inform the TD ( or email him )  that he wouldnt be coming so he was paired and his opponent received a forfeit win as the result .  I have noted that this happens fairly frequently and my question is what can be done to prevent this or to " punish " the transgressor ? What are the options ?  


Unfortunately, what more can be done?  Ideally, players that do that should be punished with more than a forfeit loss (It that player shows a history of doing this), but also, something serious may have happened. 

If i had my way, the player should be required to explain why they didnt show up, and then depending on the reason, a suitable punishment.

Your question remindd me of the story of Sammy Reshevsky getting a win due to his opponent not showing up, and Sammy insisted that the win be circled.  He tied for first, and lost out on a new car by tie breaks because of the forfeit win he insisted on. 

Pulpofeira

Agree.

TheOldReb
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

At my most recent OTB event one of the pre-registered players didnt show up . He didn't bother to call and inform the TD ( or email him )  that he wouldnt be coming so he was paired and his opponent received a forfeit win as the result .  I have noted that this happens fairly frequently and my question is what can be done to prevent this or to " punish " the transgressor ? What are the options ?  

Have people sign in when they arrive for a round and do not pair people unless they are signed in.

That's the only way I know to avoid this but it does create a lot more work each round for td's and likely ain't ever gonna happen.

The other thing would be to penalize people post-facto and not allow them to enter another tournament without having to pay a fine for their transgression of not showing.

I think the 'no show forfeit' just has to be accepted as one more annoyance that can happen at events. 

I like your sign in idea and think it wouldnt create much more work for the TD at smaller events .  If I were the TD I wouldnt pair people who arent physically present unless they had contacted me and told me they are on the way but running a little late . If they arent there at round time and I get no call I will assume they arent coming .  Ofcourse this is only addressing first round .  Its a different sort of problem for people who withdraw without telling the TD and get paired and cause a forfeit win for someone later . I think this is more frowned upon than not showing up in the first round . 

TheOldReb

I think with the amateur transgessors they should simply be told that even though they have pre-entered if they arent physically present , they won't be paired , unless they have called the TD to inform him they are running late or something . 

Martin_Stahl
Reb wrote:
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

At my most recent OTB event one of the pre-registered players didnt show up . He didn't bother to call and inform the TD ( or email him )  that he wouldnt be coming so he was paired and his opponent received a forfeit win as the result .  I have noted that this happens fairly frequently and my question is what can be done to prevent this or to " punish " the transgressor ? What are the options ?  

Have people sign in when they arrive for a round and do not pair people unless they are signed in.

That's the only way I know to avoid this but it does create a lot more work each round for td's and likely ain't ever gonna happen.

The other thing would be to penalize people post-facto and not allow them to enter another tournament without having to pay a fine for their transgression of not showing.

I think the 'no show forfeit' just has to be accepted as one more annoyance that can happen at events. 

I like your sign in idea and think it wouldnt create much more work for the TD at smaller events .  If I were the TD I wouldnt pair people who arent physically present unless they had contacted me and told me they are on the way but running a little late . If they arent there at round time and I get no call I will assume they arent coming .  Ofcourse this is only addressing first round .  Its a different sort of problem for people who withdraw without telling the TD and get paired and cause a forfeit win for someone later . I think this is more frowned upon than not showing up in the first round . 

This is generally what I do. Though, my events are small enough that I have few preregistrations that pay in advance. So, when I get close to pairing the first round if I haven't received notification that the player is for sure on their way, I'll mark them unavailable and not pair them.

I haven't yet had someone pay in advance and not show up without notification. In that case, I probably wouldn't pair them in the first round and if they show up late would provide a 1/2 pt bye for the first round ( if I'm offerring them) and potentially a rated game in an extra games section with a house-player if one was available and the player wanted a game.

TheOldReb

Sounds reasonable Martin . I think part of the problem here is that many who pre-register don't actually send any money in advance and are allowed to pay when they arrive so if they decide last minute not to go they havent sent any money to worry about . I often pre-register through email myself and pay when I arrive but I always arrive so far and if I decide not to go I will certainly let the TD know with a call and/or email .  I often take a half point bye in the first round and have won my last 2 events ( clear first in both )  doing this .  

TheOldReb
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

  I often take a half point bye in the first round and have won my last 2 events ( clear first in both )  doing this .  

Indeed, the Swiss System Gambit is a game-theory approved method of getting better event results.  

Game the pairings to one's favor and get to play weaker opposition as a result.

I don't do it to avoid the strongest players but to conserve energy as I am in my 60s and can no longer play 3 or 4 games of serious chess in one day . At my most recent event I was the highest rated player so I was actually handicapping myself . This also saves me money in 2 day events as I only need to stay in a hotel one night . 

 

Martin_Stahl
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

  I often take a half point bye in the first round and have won my last 2 events ( clear first in both )  doing this .  

Indeed, the Swiss System Gambit is a game-theory approved method of getting better event results.  

Game the pairings to one's favor and get to play weaker opposition as a result.

I've started offering perfect score bonuses to try an limit some of the gaming from taking stategic 1/2 point byes. Though, I hold smaller events and can't really make that prize very large, I think that could be one way to minimize it.

TheOldReb
Martin_Stahl wrote:
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

  I often take a half point bye in the first round and have won my last 2 events ( clear first in both )  doing this .  

Indeed, the Swiss System Gambit is a game-theory approved method of getting better event results.  

Game the pairings to one's favor and get to play weaker opposition as a result.

I've started offering perfect score bonuses to try an limit some of the gaming from taking stategic 1/2 point byes. Though, I hold smaller events and can't really make that prize very large, I think that could be one way to minimize it.

Does it still work if you are the highest rated in the field ?  Who am I avoiding in such a case ?  Seems I am clearly handicapping myself to me .  The truth is one of conserving energy .  I have found that I have the energy to fight in the last/money round for a win/first when I do this and don't when I don't do it .  Since the changes in tourney chess clearly favor the young , because they do have more energy/stamina  this is a way that I have found to fight back and it has worked so far ... 

TheOldReb

The dynamic is a bit different when you are the highest rated , for example I actually played winners in round 2 even though I had a draw in round 1 in my last 2 events .  If there is an odd # of 1s after round 1 the highest rated .5 will be paired against the lowest 1 . 

Martin_Stahl
rdecredico wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

I've started offering perfect score bonuses to try an limit some of the gaming from taking stategic 1/2 point byes. Though, I hold smaller events and can't really make that prize very large, I think that could be one way to minimize it.

Eliminate it completely by making all ELECTIVE byes ZERO points.

Only those byes that come from people not being paired due to odd number of participants should be given .5

Ends all of this SS Gambit, does it not?

But, most people really do not want to solve problems when they fear there will be some sort of reprisal from the people playing/paying. 

No one should be awarded anygthing positive if they have not actually played or made sincere efforts to play.  Deciding to skip a round should be worth zero points.


PERIOD.
 

Elective byes are a convenience to players. Some, like Reb might like to take them to not have to stay multiple nights in a hotel or to not have to get up as early for a morning round. I know of players that take a bye on the Sunday morning round of multi-day events to go to church.

Eliminating them is an idea and I imagine a number of tourneys don't offer them at all. If an organizer has enough players to chose from where losing some due to not having 1/2 pt byes is feasible, then more power to them. I know my events have enought trouble getting players, that I don't want to provide reasons not to attend.

Byes for odd numbers of players should be 1 point. It's not the player's fault there are an odd number. Basic USCF and FIDE regulations call for the bye to be treated as a win unless otherwise stated by the specific tourney rules. I don't have the USCF rulebook on hand but I'm pretty sure it is stated as 1 point and FIDE states the bye should provide as many points as a win (so it would be worth 3 in a 3-1-0 point system).

TheOldReb

I never took byes when younger but have only started recently and am doing so due to cost and energy reasons . As you age you will change your mind on many issues ... trust me .  Wink  Senior players are already quitting tourney chess for many reasons and if you take away half point byes you will probably lose even more of them and hey , their cash is green too . 

TheOldReb
rdecredico wrote:
Reb wrote:

. As you age you will change your mind on many issues ... trust me .    Senior players are already quitting tourney chess for many reasons and if you take away half point byes you will probably lose even more of them and hey , their cash is green too . 

I believe I am older than you, sir  (as I alluded to earlier).

 I am 7 years older than you sir but you are a senior in chess as well . 

TheOldReb

You were born 1960 and are 54 , correct ?  Unless you havent had your BD this year ?  

TheOldReb

Some events allow more than 1 half point bye now and almost all allow 1 . There is sometimes a restriction that one cannot be taken in the last round of a tourney or either of the last 2 rounds .... Land of The Sky used to allow 1 bye in any round except the last round . I don't know what their policy is now . 

I_Am_Second
Reb wrote:

Some events allow more than 1 half point bye now and almost all allow 1 . There is sometimes a restriction that one cannot be taken in the last round of a tourney or either of the last 2 rounds .... Land of The Sky used to allow 1 bye in any round except the last round . I don't know what their policy is now . 

At the Sacramento Chess Club, you can take as many 1/2 point byes as you want, but more than 2, and you dont qualify for any prizes.