Fischer was a bunzil.
"To Stick or Not to Stick" - That is Bobby Fischer's Question
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Feb 14, 2013
0
#43
bigpoison wrote:
trysts wrote:
When something went wrong for dear beloved Bobby he would just quit. He appeals to the quitter in all of us. They should replace the Statue of Liberty with one depicting lovely Bobby, with the moving words... "Give me my way or I'll quit!"
You sound like someone who thinks quitting is a bad thing. This protestant work ethic nonsense sure is insidious.
Often, quitting is much more difficult than carrying on.
Protestant work ethic?
I do respect those who commit suicide. I never like when people say it's the easy way out:)
Nimzo - you are right about the lawsuit - (Fischer would ultimately sue his opponent and the American Chess Foundation; the case was eventually dropped.) As Frank Brady notes in Endgame, a 2011 biography of Fisher, the result of the match “was the unfortunate casualty of Bobby’s ingrained sleep habits and long shadow of patronage in chess.” A few years later Fischer became a disciple of the Worldwide Church of God; ironically, its tenets forbade him from competitive chess on the Sabbath.
Feb 15, 2013
0
#45
paulgottlieb wrote:
If the match organizers had wanted the match to continue, they had several options, all of which they deliberately ignored.
They could have asked Fischer in advance if he would agree to reschedule the game, instead of simply ignoring their contractual obligations and arbitrarily rescheduling with no notice. It's not as it Gregor Piatagorsky's cello recital was an unplanned event.
If Fischer had declined to waive his rights, they could have decided not to play on Sunday at all and simply play game 12 at the next scheduled date. They chose not to.
Having forfeited Fischer for insisting on his contractually agreed rights, the organizers could have stepped back from the brink and immediately rescinded their foolish action and allowed the match to resume tied at 5.5 each.
Most of the Chess.com readers are far too young to have seen these events occur in real time all those years ago, but there are a few facts that have been dropped from the narrative over time. 1)Mrs. Piatagorsky and her circle were great friends and admirers of Sammy Reshevsky, and regarded Fischer as an uncouth upstart. That attitude may have influenced what happened. 2) Sammy Reshevsky, the other played involved in this mess, was widely regarded as the most argumentative and unpleasant players in U.S. chess history. I suspect that he was less than no help in finding a peaceful resolution to the mess.
In every incident where Fischer was called "crazy," "childish," etc., if examined you will see that Fischer was in the right including his negotiations with the FIDE concerning his world championship. This is what Larry Evans tried to tell the world. Fischer was the whipping boy to divert the world's attention from the true criminals in the world.
Feb 15, 2013
0
#46
I can appreciate and respect people with other viewpoints which is one great benefit of the intelligent discussions here.
With that out of the way, I can sympathize with Fischer on this.
Some people have their own personal routine. Especially with money on the line. I don't think it's fair to expect a professional to just stop his or her world on a dime and cater to the whims of someone's convenience just because their spouse had a show and it "would be nice" to not have to miss it.
With all due respect, you start trifling with my livelihood and all your pet "it would be nices" must take a back seat to the realities of earning a living.
Start playing with my grocery money 'cause you're a big shot and want to have your cake and eat it too? Cool. As long as you're okay with no cake for anyone.
You have to applaud a man with a backbone willing to stick to his principles in the face of pressure to cave in to the contrary.
He stood up for what he believed was right. My grandfather, who was a great man, used to say, "A man who won't stand up for something, will fall for anything."
Don't be that man!
And support those who stick to their guns.
After all, what good are principles if you don't abide by them?
[COMMENT DELETED]
Before we make him out as some sort of saint recall his life choices had him lead a miserable life full of hate and fear. He drove away all his friends, and he died alone and crazy.
I can admire his chess, but please, don't admire that man. Maybe here he wasn't so bad. Missing a game certainly not. Throwing away the whole match? That's his grocery money as you put it. He cut off his nose to spite his face.
learningthemoves wrote:
I can appreciate and respect people with other viewpoints which is one great benefit of the intelligent discussions here.
With that out of the way, I can sympathize with Fischer on this.
Some people have their own personal routine. Especially with money on the line. I don't think it's fair to expect a professional to just stop his or her world on a dime and cater to the whims of someone's convenience just because their spouse had a show and it "would be nice" to not have to miss it.
With all due respect, you start trifling with my livelihood and all your pet "it would be nices" must take a back seat to the realities of earning a living.
Start playing with my grocery money 'cause you're a big shot and want to have your cake and eat it too? Cool. As long as you're okay with no cake for anyone.
You have to applaud a man with a backbone willing to stick to his principles in the face of pressure to cave in to the contrary.
He stood up for what he believed was right. My grandfather, who was a great man, used to say, "A man who won't stand up for something, will fall for anything."
Don't be that man!
And support those who stick to their guns.
After all, what good are principles if you don't abide by them?
2000+ years ago Aristotle pointed out that things like courage, love of duty, and intelligence are only valuable as a means to some other end. In other words, if a good person has courage, then it it is a good thing because they will better be able to fufil their good ends. On the other hand, if a rotten person has these qualities, it just makes them even more likely for them to fulfil their rottenness! WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ARISTOTLE.
Feb 15, 2013
0
#50
BabyRhinoRainbow wrote:
learningthemoves wrote:
I can appreciate and respect people with other viewpoints which is one great benefit of the intelligent discussions here.
With that out of the way, I can sympathize with Fischer on this.
Some people have their own personal routine. Especially with money on the line. I don't think it's fair to expect a professional to just stop his or her world on a dime and cater to the whims of someone's convenience just because their spouse had a show and it "would be nice" to not have to miss it.
With all due respect, you start trifling with my livelihood and all your pet "it would be nices" must take a back seat to the realities of earning a living.
Start playing with my grocery money 'cause you're a big shot and want to have your cake and eat it too? Cool. As long as you're okay with no cake for anyone.
You have to applaud a man with a backbone willing to stick to his principles in the face of pressure to cave in to the contrary.
He stood up for what he believed was right. My grandfather, who was a great man, used to say, "A man who won't stand up for something, will fall for anything."
Don't be that man!
And support those who stick to their guns.
After all, what good are principles if you don't abide by them?
2000+ years ago Aristotle pointed out that things like courage, love of duty, and intelligence are only valuable as a means to some other end. In other words, if a good person has courage, then it it is a good thing because they will better be able to fufil their good ends. On the other hand, if a rotten person has these qualities, it just makes them even more likely for them to fulfil their rottenness! WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ARISTOTLE.
Perhaps the more insightful answer you're truly looking for is in response to the question, why with your question, and to what ends, do you insist I don't?
Gonna be honest with you here: I have no idea what that sentence is trying to say.
Feb 15, 2013
0
#52
BabyRhinoRainbow wrote:
learningthemoves wrote:
I can appreciate and respect people with other viewpoints which is one great benefit of the intelligent discussions here.
With that out of the way, I can sympathize with Fischer on this.
Some people have their own personal routine. Especially with money on the line. I don't think it's fair to expect a professional to just stop his or her world on a dime and cater to the whims of someone's convenience just because their spouse had a show and it "would be nice" to not have to miss it.
With all due respect, you start trifling with my livelihood and all your pet "it would be nices" must take a back seat to the realities of earning a living.
Start playing with my grocery money 'cause you're a big shot and want to have your cake and eat it too? Cool. As long as you're okay with no cake for anyone.
You have to applaud a man with a backbone willing to stick to his principles in the face of pressure to cave in to the contrary.
He stood up for what he believed was right. My grandfather, who was a great man, used to say, "A man who won't stand up for something, will fall for anything."
Don't be that man!
And support those who stick to their guns.
After all, what good are principles if you don't abide by them?
2000+ years ago Aristotle pointed out that things like courage, love of duty, and intelligence are only valuable as a means to some other end. In other words, if a good person has courage, then it it is a good thing because they will better be able to fufil their good ends. On the other hand, if a rotten person has these qualities, it just makes them even more likely for them to fulfil their rottenness! WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ARISTOTLE.
Aristotle may have been a great man but he was wrong in this instance, the only thing a man truly has is his integrity. If you lose your integrity you lose everything. Bobby never lost his integrity, he maintained it to the end. The world lost its integrity. Look around you and what do we have left? I'm not allowed to talk politics so you can figure the rest out for yourself.
men also have the thing between their legs, they couldn't think without it.
frank124c wrote:
BabyRhinoRainbow wrote:
learningthemoves wrote:
I can appreciate and respect people with other viewpoints which is one great benefit of the intelligent discussions here.
With that out of the way, I can sympathize with Fischer on this.
Some people have their own personal routine. Especially with money on the line. I don't think it's fair to expect a professional to just stop his or her world on a dime and cater to the whims of someone's convenience just because their spouse had a show and it "would be nice" to not have to miss it.
With all due respect, you start trifling with my livelihood and all your pet "it would be nices" must take a back seat to the realities of earning a living.
Start playing with my grocery money 'cause you're a big shot and want to have your cake and eat it too? Cool. As long as you're okay with no cake for anyone.
You have to applaud a man with a backbone willing to stick to his principles in the face of pressure to cave in to the contrary.
He stood up for what he believed was right. My grandfather, who was a great man, used to say, "A man who won't stand up for something, will fall for anything."
Don't be that man!
And support those who stick to their guns.
After all, what good are principles if you don't abide by them?
2000+ years ago Aristotle pointed out that things like courage, love of duty, and intelligence are only valuable as a means to some other end. In other words, if a good person has courage, then it it is a good thing because they will better be able to fufil their good ends. On the other hand, if a rotten person has these qualities, it just makes them even more likely for them to fulfil their rottenness! WHY WONT YOU LISTEN TO ARISTOTLE.
Aristotle may have been a great man but he was wrong in this instance, the only thing a man truly has is his integrity. If you lose your integrity you lose everything. Bobby never lost his integrity, he maintained it to the end. The world lost its integrity. Look around you and what do we have left? I'm not allowed to talk politics so you can figure the rest out for yourself.
It's hard for me to think of a Nazi sympathiser as having integrity.
FRANK JUST GOT POLITICAL
I can already hear the sound of the mods smithing a lock for this topic.
Seems the removed the comment completely instead. Not even a comment deleted placeholder.
Feb 16, 2013
0
#58
waffllemaster wrote:
Seems the removed the comment completely instead. Not even a comment deleted placeholder.
This shows a lack of integrity.
Some of you may not have noticed the attached caption to the AP Wirephoto:
Caption attached to AP Wirephoto read: Los Angeles, Calif., Aug. 14--CHESS CHAMP AND CHALLENGER - Bobby Fischer 16-year old U.S. Chess champion (center) failed to show up for the 12th game in his match with Samuel Reshevsky (left), saying that 11am is too early to play chess. Game was forfeited to Reshevsky. They are shown playing a game with actor Jose Ferrer (right) before opening series of matches last week. (AP Wirephoto) (dab20400tms) SEE AP WIRE STORY 1961
(I believe Bobby was 18 at the time - not 16)
waffllemaster wrote:
Before we make him out as some sort of saint recall his life choices had him lead a miserable life full of hate and fear. He drove away all his friends, and he died alone and crazy.
I can admire his chess, but please, don't admire that man. Maybe here he wasn't so bad. Missing a game certainly not. Throwing away the whole match? That's his grocery money as you put it. He cut off his nose to spite his face.
WTF?? Yo wafflleguy, if you are reffering to GM Bobby Fischer we admire him,first of all as a man and then as a chess player... Secondly how the f**k you know and who are you to judge and in which world Fischer was miserable and crazy?? are yoU on PILLS OR SOMETHING DUDE??? YOU SHOULD CHANGE THEM ASAP AND PLAY SOME FISCHER RANDOM ASAP TOO!!!!
When something went wrong for dear beloved Bobby he would just quit. He appeals to the quitter in all of us. They should replace the Statue of Liberty with one depicting lovely Bobby, with the moving words... "Give me my way or I'll quit!"
You sound like someone who thinks quitting is a bad thing. This protestant work ethic nonsense sure is insidious.
Often, quitting is much more difficult than carrying on.