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# Relationship between Chess rating and I.Q?

• #621

in singapore, the 18 year old male gets drafted & the military provides.  in return they take part of your brain.  so that doesn't really help either ...

• #622

Hello.
Using the IQ to SATI conversion chart found at: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/SATIQ.aspx

and the Levitt equation: Elo~ IQ*10+1000
One can calculate SAT I to ~Elo conversions.

Please keep in mind these are SATI's taken after May of 1995 to whenever as long as its on the 1600 scale/roof (Verbal + Math). That is do not add in your writing score if you took the SAT when it had a scale/roof of 2400!
IF you took the SAT test before May of 1995 good for you; your estimated Elo will be HIGHER than the one predicted by the formula!

Namely (using IQ 15 SD column the leftmost column...as most IQ tests use a standard deviation of 15) picking a pair of points and finding the line IQ= .0724*SATI + 36.33
Elo ~ ((.0724*SATI+36.33)*10) +1000  = .724*SATI + 1363.3
Elo ~ .724*SATI +1363.3

The short and approximate version of the formula is take your SATI divide by 1.4 and add 1400.
Cheers,
JWILD
p.s. Who pays for a PhD anyway? It's pretty standard for the university to pay the student, not the other way around.

• #623

Sometimes, people use math to camouflage hogwash. But it's still hogwash.

• #624

@SmyslovFan

You have accused me of willful deception, of bearing false witness. I know I have not. So I ask you, SmyslovFan, what upsets you, that you should show ill will towards a stranger?

• #625
MrWizard wrote:

Does anyone have information about any direct correlation between OTB rating and general intelligence? I vaguely recall British G.M Jonathan Levitt putting forward the notion that an I.Q of 120 indicates a person could, with sufficient work achieve a rating roughly = 2000 + [I.Q - 100] x 10

Therefore, we can conclude that even a relatively weak G.M would have an I.Q above 140 while super GM's like Kasparov would be > 180.

Those of us who have not yet reached 2000 should not despair. Levitt would tell us either to work at chess more often or change our method.

Given the studies such as that cited at www.auschess.org.au/articles/chessmind.htm I am of the opinion that I.Q is not a genetic parameter like eye colour that is handed out at birth, but rather can be altered through one's environment. I think there are three groups of people...average of which I am unfortunately a member, the gifted and the handicapped.

Any ideas or information on the subject is appreciated.

The only thing is that Kasparov had an I.Q. of 110. He was a GM, I have an I.Q. of 135, and my Rating is 1500+

• #626
JWILD wrote:

@SmyslovFan

You have accused me of willful deception, of bearing false witness. I know I have not. So I ask you, SmyslovFan, what upsets you, that you should show ill will towards a stranger?

I didn't see anything about motive. SmyslovFan focused on content. If you don't recognize hogwash when you see it, you would not be deliberately deceiving anyone. Rather, you are among the deceived.

• #627

@Ziryab. lol. You claim there is content in SmyslovFan's post? If name-calling and so-saying amounts to content, then I have a quote for you about opinions and facts. You see, Ziryab, If you recognized so-called "weasel-words" (e.g. "sometimes" as used in "sometimes people use mathematics to camouflage hogwash") or if you recognized accusation of willful intent to deceive behind the usage of "camouflage" when used as a verb to describe another person's actions, you would not be DeRping anyone. Rather, you are the DeRp.

cam·ou·flage

#### VERB

1. hide or disguise the presence of (a person, animal, or object) by means of camouflage.
"the war area had to be camouflaged with mud"
Synonyms: disguise, hide, conceal, keep hidden, mask, screen, cover (up)
• #628

You have a point, JWILD. Maybe SmyslovFan was crediting you with the knowledge to understand that you were promoting fecal matter from male bovines. Nonetheless, the critique is not a personal attack, but rather the observation that the apparent content of your math was little more than a smokescreen. His focus was on the absence of content in your post, not on your morality.

• #629

My IQ is -163 the negative isn't a typo

• #630

JWILD can rest easy at night knowing that Ziryab has confirmed that SmyslovFan does not question JWILD's morality.
As a point of fact I will add that the math and inferences I used were air tight. Take it to the bank. Fat lady has sung. I think instead you criticize validity of the of IQ ~ SAT or IQ ~ Elo.
IQ ~ SAT  with R = approx. .7
IQ ~ Elo   ....different story.

I guess my point is that if you don't believe in Levitt's equation. Good for you. I haven't made up my mind and am leaning the other way, but at least that's a respectable viewpoint. If, you're going to believe in Levitt's equation (Elo~ IQ*10 + 1000) then it seems like it might save time to believe the expected value of SAT ~ Elo to be found in my equation, seeing as how believing so would keep your beliefs consistent. If however, you are going to troll with a diamond membership by not knowing what your talking about, not attempting to learn by asking, and then, while pretending to know, accuse someone of "camouflaging hogwash" then you are SmyslovFan. In other words the Levitt equation may or may not be hogwash 50-50 or whatnot. My equation then too may or may not be hogwash. The link however, between my equation and the Levitt equation the "your math" as you call it is empirical fact. SAT I correlates with IQ. They are both scores on tests, and they generally move in the same direction. Oh Also, all the content is linked or IN my post so when you say there's no content, I wonder to what you refer.

P.s. I don't apologize when I'm right, except when I feel like it. I happen to feel like it, so I'm sorry if I offended you.

• #631

It doesn't matter how good the math is when it is rooted in a presupposition that is demonstrably false. There is no logical relationship between chess and IQ. Perhaps a bonafide moron cannot exceed weak master and most geniuses should probably rise above 1200. Beyond such crude limits, correlations break down. No amount of calculus will repair poor logic.

• #632

The whole idea of IQ is controversial and subjective so I don't think you can apply a formula between a chess rating and IQ.  However, qualities of intelligence do transfer to chess, such as memory, learning and application of learned concepts to tasks, logic, creativity, causal relationships and likely more. Also, the exercise of the mind in solving chess problems is probably good for the old brain muscle.

• #633
YuvalW wrote:
Kasparov's IQ is bigger then einstein's (by the theory from above)

Then I believe in the formula.

Einstein was a crap. Relativity theory is a b***shit, that delayed physics in 100 years.

• #634
Ziryab wrote:

It doesn't matter how good the math is when it is rooted in a presupposition that is demonstrably false. There is no logical relationship between chess and IQ. Perhaps a bonafide moron cannot exceed weak master and most geniuses should probably rise above 1200. Beyond such crude limits, correlations break down. No amount of calculus will repair poor logic.

This. I have no qualms with this argument; I find it to be maybe slightly overstated, but only slightly so. The Levitt equation (Elo ~ 10*IQ + 1000), yeah, it has a lot of noise, strict assumptions (the "~" meaning "years of concerted effort") as well as it's correlative nature (doesn't/cannot account for selection effects (where people who select to pursue chess are likely to be more apt to do well in it than someone who is less likely to pursue chess), to me means it doesn't make any meaningful predictions that couldn't be gleaned by playing the game. Also, as you point out, there may be certain thresholds. Like anyone with IQ over something can learn to play, and anyone with IQ over like 100 can become world champ. Beyond those thresholds the Levitt equation, and therefore my SAT ~ Elo equation don't really do all that much; they're just fun...like chess!
In other words, if you're 8 years old and somehow (rather magically given that you're 8) know your IQ and you've never played chess AND want to guess at what your Elo MIGHT be with years of study, then in a jiff you can plug into the formula and get a result that has a large error term. So like if you're 8 and wanna become World Champion someday you can be like hmm... how far does an IQ of 91 get me? Oh...not quite to World Champion? oh well I'll play chess anyway to prove Levitt and JWILD wrong! Or if your 8 and have a known stable IQ of 167 (again magically...because who has a known and stable IQ at 8...or any age for that matter) and have never played chess, you can go hmmm...I might have a chance according to the Levitt equation. This scenario is so realistic as to be taken for immutable truth. jk. More likely the 8 year old with the 167 IQ will think, hmmm...this is fun and I'm really winning against my classmates. I like fun! I like winning! Can't win if you don't play... let's play chess! and the 91 IQ kid will say/think this this is fun! I too am sometimes winning! I too like fun! I too like winning! Can't win if you don't play... let's play chess!

• #635

ELO ratings very often depend on chess preparation rather than pure chess skill. I believe that high achievement in chess composition and problem solving would correlate with IQ. However, there is no method to ascertain the extent of creativity and originality of a chess player from the tournament games.

• #636

I think the truth lay in the middle road .in other words ..Einstein probably  had the potential under the proper training to achieve a high chess elo. GMs have the potential for a high IQ score IF they went all through school learned much of what is on an IQ test, vocab, mathematics, so on ..no one can know many of those things without learning ..the same applies to farmers that quit school for instance anything that required higher education to solve on an iq test unless they are super genius and can make up some equation on the fly ..then I dare say they will not do well on those parts of the test ..lowering their supposed IQ ..now same with SAT what it shows is when that translates to IQ it mainly reveals who the geniuses are ..but NOT who has the intelligence under the same training through school to accomplish those high scores .. thats the weakness of those types of tests .. imo

• #637
My theory is to test iq of every experienced chess player and see if iq and chess ability has correlations
• #638
My theory is to test iq of every experienced chess player and see if iq and chess ability has correlations. It would be simple enough science work
• #639

according to wikipedia :

Although the link between performance in chess and general intelligence is often assumed, researchers have largely failed to confirm its existence.[132] For example, a 2006 study found no differences in fluid intelligence, as measured by Raven's Progressive Matrices, between strong adult chess players and regular people.[133] There is some evidence towards a correlation between performance in chess and intelligence among beginning players. However, performance in chess also relies substantially on one's experience playing the game, and the role of experience may overwhelm the role of intelligence. Chess experts are estimated to have in excess of 10,000 and possibly as many as 300,000 position patterns stored in their memory; long training is necessary to acquire that amount of data.[134]

A 2007 study of young chess players in the United Kingdom found that strong players tended to have above-average IQ scores, but, within that group, the correlation between chess skill and IQ was moderately negative, meaning that smarter children tended to achieve a lower level of chess skill. This result was explained by a negative correlation between intelligence and practice in the elite subsample, and by practice having a higher influence on chess skill.[134]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess#Chess_and_intelligence

• #640

For sure it plays a part. Being a good critical thinker and the ability to focus if definitely helpful. There are many other factors that play just, if not more, an important role in the game. For instance:  personality, aggressiveness, risk assessment, patience. The biggest one is your ego. It's always trying to tell us we're not good enough or smart enough to play well. Practice, practice, practice. Learn from your mistakes.  Become great !!!

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