Responses to 4. Ng5

Good evening everyone,

I am a beginner who has recently decided to attempt to improve his chess game. I usually play almost exclusively with a small group of friends, though lately I have been trying to play a 30 minute game against a stranger each day. I have noticed that 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 ... comprises roughly a quarter of my games as black against other users around my rating (~1200 at this time). This strikes me as bad play for white.

I usually respond 4. ... d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 which seems natural to me having never researched it. This evening I encountered an interesting line of play which was disastrous for me:

A little research shows me that this is called the Fegatello attack. A better line for black is 5. ... Na5, according to an opening browser I was looking at. I've also played 5. ... Nd4 6. d6 Qxd6 7. Nxf7 Qc6 8. Nxh8 Qxg2 9. Rf1 Qe4 10. Be2 Nf3# or some variation thereof more than once, which is fun but not very instructive for me so I generally avoid it.

What is your favorite response to this move as black?

Possibly helpful:

Starting Out: Open Games by GM Glenn Flear (2010)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232452/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen134.pdf
Beating the open games, Mihail Marin
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626195205/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen102.pdf
Open-Games-Black-Igor-Lysyj
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627104938/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen159.pdf
Play the Open Games as Black by John Emms
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022601/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen11.txt
Bologan's Black Weapons in the Open Games
http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Bologans-Black-Weapons-in-the-Open-Games-76p3873.htm
Play 1 e4 e5! by Nigel Davies (2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626201436/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen80.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627083715/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen98.pdf
The Kaufman Repertoire for Black & White by Larry Kaufman (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626221508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen162.pdf
Opening Repertoire: The Open Games with Black by Martin Lokander (2015)
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/7546.pdf
Playing 1.e4 e5 - A Classical Repertoire by Nikolaos Ntirlis (2016)
https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/7572.pdf

After exd5 you can go Na5 attacking the bishop. eg Bb5+ c6 dxc6 bxc6 and the bishop goes away.

i'd personally recommend the Traxler counter attack. if your opponent doesn't know what he's doing then it's nearly a certain win.

dont like this

What happened to you is a sort of famous opening called the Fried Liver Attack. Actually when I first saw this thread I thought you might be joking/trolling but I saw the actual game in your archives so I know you're serious.

It is not actually clear if 6. Nxf7 is such a great move, but 1) if you want to refute it, you need to play 7...Ke6 to defend the knight in the center (which is rather scary for someone who doesn't know the line) and 2) the position after 5...Nxd5 is very dangerous after 6. d4! by white as well, which is called the Lolli Attack.

5...Nxd5 is for those reasons not a great choice. You must find something else. The main line is 5...Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 (6...Bd7 might also be playable, although considerably less popular) 7. dxc6 bxc6 and you have sacrificed a pawn for activity. Black's compensation is interesting but there's a lot of theory and it might not be to everyone's taste.

Therefore another option (although I know the actual game used a different move order) is to play with Bc5 in place of Nf6; i.e. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5. Ng5 now is not possible and on the next moves you would like to play Nf6 and then 0-0 and d6. Something like 4. d3 Nf6 5. Ng5?! is not dangerous and is rather a waste of time because after 5...0-0 it would be insane for white to capture on f7.

So you have two options: learn the line with Nf6 properly (and be brave enough to play a pawn down with compensation), or avoid it with a safer move Bc5, which is more of a simple game. Looking at your games, and your ratings on this site, I'd recommend the latter, and I'd also mention that I play 3...Bc5 myself!

The only move you that you should play in response after exd5 is ...Na5. The other lines you should just ignore. 

See the correspondence game Estrin-Berliner (1972?) 0-1 for a model black game vs 4.Ng5. 

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I will try out 3 ... Bc5 rather than Nf6 and also explore the Na5 line, as you and others have suggested.

4.Ng5 is a bizarre move, in that by all principles it should be condemned as a premature attack, moving a piece twice in the opening, not developing, etc etc … and yet it may give Black the most practical problems.  I knew a master who insisted that it was White’s only chance at an advantage in this position.

Playing 4…d5 is of course the best move, but 5…Nxd5?! is probably a mistake.  Best play is likely Chigorin’s counter-attack, 5…Na5, where Black will sacrifice a pawn after Bb5+ but get complete central control, easy development and push White on the defensive.  At the same time, White has no structural weaknesses and a pawn is a pawn.  A hotly debated line.

My favourite move after 4.Ng5, though, is the Ulvestad Variation with 4…b5!?  It looks crazy, but White has to play 5.Bf1!, an unintuitive move, as otherwise Black gets by far the easier game.  I’ve used this variation about ten times as a surprise weapon, and I’ve never faced White’s best reply, Bf1.  I’m not sure if theory has refuted this opening or not, but as a practical weapon, especially among beginners, it might be worth a shot.

5...Nxd5 is objectively not a bad move, but practically speaking, Black is asking for trouble.

5...b5 and 5...Nd4 usually transpose to the same line, which is better for white.

Just play 5...Na5, although there's still quite a bit of theory to learn.

You don't think 6. d4 is objectively better for white?

 https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-do-i-get-that-1800-into-a-fried-liver

If you want to play the 2 knights properly, there is some theory to learn, and that's just a fact. 

White has the move 4.d4 which gets rather theoretical after 4...exd5 5.e5 d5 is a pretty common line in the 2 knights. 

Anyways, you might want to consider the Italian game w/ 4...Bc5 if you're worried about all these lines. 

I usually don't go into this line as black but if I do I usually play the 5...Na5 line. Playing down a pawn but it opens things up and gets sharp in a hurry. Also if white's not careful there's traps they can fall into. 

I think Dan Heisman found some idea in the 5...Na5 6. d4 line with an engine. The surprising resource is 6...Nxd4 7. c3 b5!

It's in some chess magazine I'm sure you can find if it you do some research

Interesting, RookSacrifice. I'll check that out. 

Also you can find this in your lessons to practice:

How to Defend Against the Fried Liver Attack - - Chess.com

https://www.chess.com/lessons/view/7180

The best way to test Heisman's idea is this one:

White does seem to be better after 10.cxd4, at least in practical OTB play, and white can bring this position by force.

I do not like the way Black handled the position, but finding an adequate defense admittedly isn't an easy task.