Review is wrong!? Review vs Analysis

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Secof17

After my game I went on to the review because it said there was a blunder and thought I would check out everything I had missed.  I was happy to see a Great move on move 13. It said as follows:
 

However I was wondering why the knight, in the sequence suggested, wouldn't just jump back to c1 instead of a5...  So I opened the analysis board to check out what I had missed, only to find that the analysis board is saying that c1 was the best move...



Can someone please help or explain why the review is basically wrong?

Thanks!!

Martin_Stahl
Secof17 wrote:

After my game I went on to the review because it said there was a blunder and thought I would check out everything I had missed. I was happy to see a Great move on move 13. It said as follows:

However I was wondering why the knight, in the sequence suggested, wouldn't just jump back to c1 instead of a5... So I opened the analysis board to check out what I had missed, only to find that the analysis board is saying that c1 was the best move...

Can someone please help or explain why the review is basically wrong?

Thanks!!

The strength of the review is going to impact how accurate it is and a lower strength might miss things a higher strength or longer analysis will find.

Also, it could be down to the engine horizon.

At highest strength, Qd6 is just the best move, not great, and it only gives a couple of moves

Secof17

I feel like it is really misleading though... Almost like a marketing ploy to get people investing in the membership no?

Spr_chess_intermediate
Secof17 a écrit :

I feel like it is really misleading though... Almost like a marketing ploy to get people investing in the membership no?

I think you did not use the app...

The game review is misleading, sometimes the accuracy on the app tells you 98% and on the site it tells you 93%...

Sometimes the great move is actually a best move, or maybe an inaccuracy is actually a miss...

Martin_Stahl
Secof17 wrote:

I feel like it is really misleading though... Almost like a marketing ploy to get people investing in the membership no?

The engine strength is what it is and can only provide information based on how deep it can go.

The longer it runs the better the results. Game Review is wrapped around the engine and runs server side, with the higher strength behind premium, which helps with the development and associated costs of the feature.

The analysis tab allows deeper client side analysis in positions that may benefit a deeper analysis. Even at the highest strength review, there are positions that can benefit from longer analysis.

Secof17
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Secof17 wrote:

I feel like it is really misleading though... Almost like a marketing ploy to get people investing in the membership no?

The engine strength is what it is and can only provide information based on how deep it can go.

The longer it runs the better the results. Game Review is wrapped around the engine and runs server side, with the higher strength behind premium, which helps with the development and associated costs of the feature.

The analysis tab allows deeper client side analysis in positions that may benefit a deeper analysis. Even at the highest strength review, there are positions that can benefit from longer analysis.

Thanks Martin_Stahl, I understand and have played around with the length of time and depth for the analysis. My issue is just with the review feature that is a big part of why I wanted to purchase a subscription at chess.com in the future. After this experience however I have lost faith and trust in it to be honest... We as free users only get access to this feature once a day and finding out it is not even worth it is really disappointing.

Secof17
Spr_chess_intermediate wrote:
Secof17 a écrit :

I feel like it is really misleading though... Almost like a marketing ploy to get people investing in the membership no?

I think you did not use the app...

The game review is misleading, sometimes the accuracy on the app tells you 98% and on the site it tells you 93%...

Sometimes the great move is actually a best move, or maybe an inaccuracy is actually a miss...

You are right, I used the site. I prefer the larger monitor for playing chess happy.png That is just wrong though how the Premium Review feature doesn't provide you with good honest consistent feedback. It is supposed to be a window into the best that Chess.com can provide should we subscribe... and I have to say, I think they need to clean that window a little.

Martin_Stahl

It provides good evaluation at the strength it runs at. Basic analysis is at Fast strength I believe, which isn't going to get very deep into positions. There are 4 levels; Fast, Standard, Deep, and Maximum. Maximum is going to get deeper into most positions and provide the best analysis, but even then, there are positions where a longer analysis is going to come up with something different.

For example, Standard gives a different line than both Fast and Maximum, due to engine depth/time on the position.

Secof17

Martin man, you are just saying the same thing again and are not really understanding the issue I have. You can't set the strength of the Review you can only alter it for the analysis board.

RopemakerStreet

Translation:

you have to pay to win. Just like getting more vacation in daily matches with premium

magipi
RopemakerStreet wrote:

Translation:

you have to pay to win.

Not true.

Game review is trash either way, all that it says is nonsense, completely useless. If you wanna get better (and win), analyze your games yourself, then check with the engine (with Analysis).

You should never use Game review.

Martin_Stahl
Secof17 wrote:

Martin man, you are just saying the same thing again and are not really understanding the issue I have. You can't set the strength of the Review you can only alter it for the analysis board.

I'm saying that ithe issue is that engines need time and depth to get truer results. But premium absolutely can change the review strength.

Martin_Stahl
magipi wrote:

...

Game review is trash either way, all that it says is nonsense, completely useless. If you wanna get better (and win), analyze your games yourself, then check with the engine (with Analysis).

You should never use Game review.

Game Review can provide a good starting point. I use it quickly pinpoint mistakes, especially those that weren't taken advantage of in the game. Then actually analyze these areas manually to see if I can figure out why.

Depending on the time control of the game, the adage to analyze your own games has limitations as well. If I spent significant time in game analyzing, it not very likely that spending more time after the game is going to improve the analysis, except in some instances.

It's a tool, like any other and can be useful and/or misused.

Spr_chess_intermediate
Martin_Stahl a écrit :
magipi wrote:

...

Game review is trash either way, all that it says is nonsense, completely useless. If you wanna get better (and win), analyze your games yourself, then check with the engine (with Analysis).

You should never use Game review.

Game Review can provide a good starting point. I use it quickly pinpoint mistakes, especially those that weren't taken advantage of in the game. Then actually analyze these areas manually to see if I can figure out why.

Depending on the time control of the game, the adage to analyze your own games has limitations as well. If I spent significant time in game analyzing, it not very likely that spending more time after the game is going to improve the analysis, except in some instances.

It's a tool, like any other and can be useful and/or misused.

I would say that lichess.org is much better if you are an intermediate or an advanced but chess.com is better for new to chess or beginners...

magipi
Martin_Stahl wrote:
magipi wrote:

...

Game review is trash either way, all that it says is nonsense, completely useless. If you wanna get better (and win), analyze your games yourself, then check with the engine (with Analysis).

You should never use Game review.

Game Review can provide a good starting point. I use it quickly pinpoint mistakes, especially those that weren't taken advantage of in the game. Then actually analyze these areas manually to see if I can figure out why.

Depending on the time control of the game, the adage to analyze your own games has limitations as well. If I spent significant time in game analyzing, it not very likely that spending more time after the game is going to improve the analysis, except in some instances.

It's a tool, like any other and can be useful and/or misused.

I totally disagree. Analysis has all the advantages that you said. bit it's easy to use and not misleading and not dumb. Whenever Game review says something like "This wins a knight" and it turns out that it doesn't, the whole thing feels like a clear scam.

darlihysa

It depends from the engine you use! I heard hackers of china are trying to sell a secret engine "neo". It was stopped but it provides other moves as best moves shaking the logic principles as we know them!!