Rook vs 2 support pieces - Chess Forums

Arbiter_of_knowledge

Dec 31, 2018

0

#1

Hello everyone. So what I want to know is the general consensus on if whether or not trading two support pieces (whether they be bishops or knights) for a rook is considered a fair exchange? I know in terms of 'pawns' the one who loses the rook is in the advantage, but I wonder in real terms whether this is true or not. Could anyone provide any insight / discussion into the matter?

EDIT: I say this as someone who, if given the chance, will nearly always remove the opponent's rook from play hoping for a return on investment later on in the game.

stiggling

Dec 31, 2018

0

#2

Early in the game rooks aren't worth a lot due to a full set of pawns meaning no open files.

Late in the game, everything else being equal, two pieces are better than 1 because 1 defender will always lose against two attackers. Same thing when it's two rooks vs a queen, the queen is at a disadvantage if the rooks are coordinated and the kings are safe.

So for example

Something like this, which is 6 points for 6 points, is a common mistake from beginners. Black's position is much better than white's. First of all white traded his only two developed pieces and secondly as said before, rooks aren't worth their full value when there are no open files (an open file is a file with no pawns on it).

Arbiter_of_knowledge

Dec 31, 2018

0

#3

stiggling wrote:

Early in the game rooks aren't worth a lot due to a full set of pawns meaning no open files.

Late in the game, everything else being equal, two pieces are better than 1 because 1 defender will always lose against two attackers. Same thing when it's two rooks vs a queen, the queen is at a disadvantage if the rooks are coordinated and the kings are safe.

So for example

Something like this, which is 6 points for 6 points, is a common mistake from beginners. Black's position is much better than white's. First of all white traded his only two developed pieces and secondly as said before, rooks aren't worth 5 yet in the opening phase.

Ahhh *blushes* I believe I have done that exact opening as white

While I agree about the idea of a piece, in a good place, being lost to a hardly moveable rook ... and I see what you're saying about the two attacking vs 1 defending point ... but at least anecdotally, it feels as if having a rook endgame just allows the player to pretty much control the game.

stiggling

Dec 31, 2018

0

#4

DrSebWilkes wrote:

stiggling wrote:

Early in the game rooks aren't worth a lot due to a full set of pawns meaning no open files.

Late in the game, everything else being equal, two pieces are better than 1 because 1 defender will always lose against two attackers. Same thing when it's two rooks vs a queen, the queen is at a disadvantage if the rooks are coordinated and the kings are safe.

So for example

Something like this, which is 6 points for 6 points, is a common mistake from beginners. Black's position is much better than white's. First of all white traded his only two developed pieces and secondly as said before, rooks aren't worth 5 yet in the opening phase.

Ahhh *blushes* I believe I have done that exact opening as white

While I agree about the idea of a piece, in a good place, being lost to a hardly moveable rook ... and I see what you're saying about the two attacking vs 1 defending point ... but at least anecdotally, it feels as if having a rook endgame just allows the player to pretty much control the game.

Sure, I mean, it sort of depends on the rating.

If they're well coordinated, then two bishops and a knight (3+3+3) will beat a queen (9) just because there are 3 of them... but at lower ratings where it's hard (or nearly impossible) for players to coordinate many pieces the queen will have a big practical advantage. Same thing for rook vs two minor pieces. The rook is much easier to coordinate because there's only 1 of it

So if you're getting good positions, then I say keep doing it. It sounds like you understand the underlying logic, so you'll be ready to adjust if/when it stops working for you.