well but if the law forbids it its definetly another case...
Sad case of high school chess cheating
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Apr 13, 2013
0
#143
Calm down.
I'd bet that the country in which the game took place doesn't have laws about cheating in a chess game, and therefore it's a private matter with the organizers and those involved with the event. 99% of the people in other chess tournaments would probably not see the picture or recognize them. On top of that, cheating once doesn't mean that they're going to cheat again.
If you win money it's fraud. There doesn't have to be a chess tournament specific law.
[COMMENT DELETED]
waffllemaster wrote:
If you win money it's fraud. There doesn't have to be a chess tournament specific law.
THank you, that was my thinking!!
Apr 13, 2013
0
#147
"If you win money it's fraud."
I'm not sure. I don't know the USA laws and system. In my country the fraud requires:
1) A intentional deception explicit and sufficient to lead to error.
2) taxpayer error vitiating his will.
3) This must have provoke a transefer of assets in economic damage of the deceived or a third.
4) The act has to be directed at economic profit.
5) Chace relationship between act and economic damage.
The guy's goal was economic? In this case the money can be secondary to the cheater.
Who is harmed economically? The organization of the tournament is not harmed because they paid regardless of the winer. The second of the tournament? I think is unclear because the cheater has be affected the tourney Perhaps the second would be another if he dind't make cheats.
etc. With the laws of my country, likely this isn't a criminal fraud.
Perhaps arguably unjust enrichment to return the money by the civil laws.
"There doesn't have to be a chess tournament specific law." For this It is better than the law specifies there because simplifies things.
Who is harmed economically? The organization of the tournament is not harmed because they paid regardless of the winer. The second of the tournament? I think is unclear because the cheater has be affected the tourney Perhaps the second would be another if he dind't make cheats.
thats is a far stretch to say not sure who was harmed and ofc the image was harmed of the tournament and the image of chess as a whole and that of every chess player. Also clear that it would at least fit 1, 3 and 4 anyway.
Apr 13, 2013
0
#149
But the criminal fraud requires all requisites. If only one doesn't exist, then the act isn't criminal fraud.
"was harmed and ofc the image was harmed of the tournament and the image of chess as a whole and that of every chess player."
+1 in this but the damage has to be in the equity. Each offense has its requeriments. For the damages in image they can try to ask for civil compensation.
A good internal regulation against cheating is in my opinion a better solution.
Crazychessplaya wrote:
All right, picture out. Maybe he'll grow up decent.
Thank you Crazychessplaya!
If you look at all my OTB games, it is clear that I consult with a computer and then pick the 8th best move every time.
Apr 13, 2013
0
#152
"My point was you are quite unique to have learned the variations without the names to the point of NM level."
I know a strong player not NM but +2100 that don't know the names of many openings variations. If you asked him for the Ruy Lopez or KID he knows the name, but if you asked him for Panov's attack (caro kan), Breyer variation (ruy lopez), Mar de plata (KID), Short variation (caro kan) and many other he don't know. He study few openings. This player uses old openings, ruy lopez Steinitz, philidors, and others and normally play the opening regular or bad but he is very hard and know well the endgames, make few errors, and is good defensor. He has obtained points against masters,
It is possible.
(sorry for my english)
Since when was he banned for life?
JM3000 wrote:
"My point was you are quite unique to have learned the variations without the names to the point of NM level."
I know a strong player not NM but +2100 that don't know the names of many openings variations. If you asked him for the Ruy Lopez or KID he knows the name, but if you asked him for Panov's attack (caro kan), Breyer variation (ruy lopez), Mar de plata (KID), Short variation (caro kan) and many other he don't know. He study few openings. This player uses old openings, ruy lopez Steinitz, philidors, and others and normally play the opening regular or bad but he is very hard and know well the endgames, make few errors, and is good defensor. He has obtained points against masters,
It is possible.
(sorry for my english)
Man i dont believe there isnt any titled player in the world who doesnt know at least the names breyer variation and panov botvinnik attack.
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
Since when was he banned for life?
?
Although a titled player likely knows the names of major openings and variations that are common, I doubt that every titled player knows the names of every possible opening and sub variation. Notably, certain openings have multiple names. Moreover, memorizing names of openings doesn't help you become a better player. Understanding the underlying principles and tactical considerations is more important than knowing the name of a line. FWIW there are openings that I play somewhat frequently that I often forget the names of the sub variations.
TetsuoShima wrote:
JM3000 wrote:
"My point was you are quite unique to have learned the variations without the names to the point of NM level."
I know a strong player not NM but +2100 that don't know the names of many openings variations. If you asked him for the Ruy Lopez or KID he knows the name, but if you asked him for Panov's attack (caro kan), Breyer variation (ruy lopez), Mar de plata (KID), Short variation (caro kan) and many other he don't know. He study few openings. This player uses old openings, ruy lopez Steinitz, philidors, and others and normally play the opening regular or bad but he is very hard and know well the endgames, make few errors, and is good defensor. He has obtained points against masters,
It is possible.
(sorry for my english)
Man i dont believe there isnt any titled player in the world who doesnt know at least the names breyer variation and panov botvinnik attack.
The person who is harmed is the person who would have won but for the cheating. I think it is clear that a cheater could be prosecuted in almost any jurisdiction for theft by deception. However,it may be unlikely for law enforcement officials to actually press charges because they don't perceive it to be a serious crime. I am aware that there were criminal prosecutions of several people who had cheated in fishing competitions having large prizes (e.g., a boat).
TetsuoShima wrote:
Who is harmed economically? The organization of the tournament is not harmed because they paid regardless of the winer. The second of the tournament? I think is unclear because the cheater has be affected the tourney Perhaps the second would be another if he dind't make cheats.
thats is a far stretch to say not sure who was harmed and ofc the image was harmed of the tournament and the image of chess as a whole and that of every chess player. Also clear that it would at least fit 1, 3 and 4 anyway.
Apr 13, 2013
0
#158
Even a master who claims not to know the names of any major opening such as iFrancisco admitted that he did indeed know the Philidor position though. I don't think there's any master who doesn't know that.
Also, you could ask: White has a K on f6 and Pawn on f5. Black has a K on f8.
With best play, what is the result with
White to move
What is the result with Black to move.
This one gets a huge number of wrong answers. Perhaps someone will claim that a master doesn't necessarily know algebraic notation?
Maybe it is a mistranslation issue but I do not think that you have set forth elements for a criminal fraud charge under Spanish law. In particular, the portion about "taxpayer error vitiating his will" makes no sense. All of the other elements, if I understand your English, are satisfied by the facts of this case.
I also note that we are actually dealing with theft (by deception), which I suppose is closely related to fraud. An example of theft by deception is if your friend tells you he will buy a lottery ticket for you if you give him a dollar. Instead of purchasing the lottery ticket, he keeps your money and tells you your ticket lost. This is a clear case of theft. However, you are unlikely to convince law enforcement to bring charges because of the small amount of money lost and the difficulty of proving the case.
JM3000 wrote:
"If you win money it's fraud."
I'm not sure. I don't know the USA laws and system. In my country the fraud requires:
1) A intentional deception explicit and sufficient to lead to error.
2) taxpayer error vitiating his will.
3) This must have provoke a transefer of assets in economic damage of the deceived or a third.
4) The act has to be directed at economic profit.
5) Chace relationship between act and economic damage.
The guy's goal was economic? In this case the money can be secondary to the cheater.
Who is harmed economically? The organization of the tournament is not harmed because they paid regardless of the winer. The second of the tournament? I think is unclear because the cheater has be affected the tourney Perhaps the second would be another if he dind't make cheats.
etc. With the laws of my country, likely this isn't a criminal fraud.
Perhaps arguably unjust enrichment to return the money by the civil laws.
"There doesn't have to be a chess tournament specific law." For this It is better than the law specifies there because simplifies things.
Chess.com, please take the picture down.
He did an incredibly stupid and lame thing and I condemn the behavior. He is a cheater and a liar, but he is a kid at least for a time. While some say suffer the consequences, I do not see the point in sending his picture around the world a billion times and passing it around so we can berate him publicly.
He may have brought it upon himself, but a full scale public humiliation does nobody good and can often been quite damaging or tragic. As billyblatt mentions, I believe it may be illegal. As a teacher, I know that I must get consent from parents before using any image of a student in any way beyond the classroom. If something were to happen I would not be surprised if chess.com were in some way liabile, although I don't know. At the very least it is unethical and in very poor taste.
Again, I am not saying that I have respect for him or what he did, but (TetsuoShima) we are not talking about a killer, just a kid who cheated in chess.
He cheated, why shouldnt other people be at least warned about him??? no1 will berate him but it would at least be good to know.
Yes you are a teacher, but your students are innocents.
Well he isnt a killer, but a cheat can affect the lifes of people just as bad, we should at least be warned that we are dealing with a dishonest person.
It will do greater good, it will not only warn us but also dissuade other people.
How come if you think there is no harm, we can't see a picture of you in your profile?
Why can't we see your face or where you live ? What you afraid of?
It is perfectly ok for you to protect your anonimity, because you don't want the world to know who you are, but you don't seem to extend that same iota of privacy to someone who has been appropriately punished.
It is not for you or us to decide whether his picture should be made public!!
That is the jurisdiction of the law. You are not to take the law in your own hands.
If the Supreme Court decides that his actions were heinous enough to have his picture publicly displayed, then I will agree. Until then, you can't just what you feel like.
@Netzach, . No one is talking about a cover up or censuring. The question is Do you have the legal right to use the picture? That is it. Only the use and abuse of a picture of a minor without any legal consent from his guardian?
What Criminal rethorik is that???? Why compare me, an innocent person, with a guy with high criminal energy, he cheated because he wanted fraud the other players of the money. HE is a criminal, other people should be warned SO They dont get frauded by the same criminal element of society.
HE IS DISHONEST AND HAS VERY HIGH CRIMINAL ENERGY, WHY SHOULD PEOPLE NOT BE WARNED?????? ITS BETTER TO BE SAFE THEN SORRY!!!!!
EVERY PERSON WHO GETS IN CONTACT WITH HIM NEEDS TO BE ALERT THAT HE IS A CRIMINAL!!!!!
im an innocent person, he is a criminal mind.