Stalemate sucks and it needs to be removed

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Robalero

Remember, you don't have to promote the pawn to a Queen, it can be promoted to a Rook as well and a decent experienced chess player should be able to checkmate a lone K against a K and a R.

blueemu

Stalemate isn't the issue.

Failure to pay attention is the issue.

sndeww
dickdicksdicks wrote:

You play a close game where it's pawn + king vs. solo king. You do all the right moves up until the very last one and get your queen. Boom, stalemate. It's pretty easy to force. The opponent can't move. Why is that your problem? Stalemate should be abolished. Period.

nice username thumbup

nargalia

Agreed, stalemate has no real basis behind it. It should be removed.

River1835
Stalemate is good in game, it teaches you how to avoid it in real life matches. Also, only little kids complain about stalemate. :/ All I can say is, stalemate is apart of the game. If you can’t handle it, go find a new hobby.
Tmanw007

Removing Stalemate makes as much sense as giving beginners an extra Queen. Stalemate of the kind to which you refer results from a hard and fast rule that the King can't move itself into Check/Checkmate. If one has an advantage such that a clear positional dominance has been reached, it is the responsibility of said dominant player to maneuver the attacking pieces into a clear Checkmate. Surrounding the King is Stalemate!

Kyobir
Stalemate = Good.
Odonovans

Its a tactic though, and yes its terrible when it happens, but its a clever way to pull a draw from a loss. I call it (snatching a draw from the mouth of defeat).

EndgameEnthusiast2357

No pass in chess. That's wouldn't make any sense. Zugzwangs would become meaningless.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

It's not a warning thing, the king has to be under attack, whether he is aware of it or not. Saying "check" has nothing to do with it. Also, the black king isn't "dying" here:

Lord_Phan
long_quach wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

It's not a warning thing, the king has to be under attack, whether he is aware of it or not.

If I have the King in check, and he is not aware of it, and moves another piece, leaving the King en prise,

can I kill the King?

He is not allowed to ignore check, he has to remove check. Any other move is illegal.

Lord_Phan
long_quach wrote:

Corollary to the previous.

Can the King move into check, like other pieces?

No the King cannot move into check.

jetoba
long_quach wrote:

@EndgameEnthusiast2357

Answer the question.

Why must I announce "check" if the object of the game is to kill the King?

The logic of the game is:

The pieces move a certain way.

Move the pieces to kill the King.

Why must I warn the King?

You do not have to warn the opponent. In competitions if everybody says check all of the time then some games between lower-rated players would have a constant metronome of check-check-check that would disturb the other games.

You still cannot capture the king, but touch move does apply and could be disastrous for the checked player.

BigChessplayer665
long_quach wrote:
Lord_Phan wrote:
long_quach wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

It's not a warning thing, the king has to be under attack, whether he is aware of it or not.

If I have the King in check, and he is not aware of it, and moves another piece, leaving the King en prise,

can I kill the King?

He is not allowed to ignore check, he has to remove check. Any other move is illegal.

Why not?

Why do I have to warn him that he is in check?

Technically because a king can't walk into check in chess you don't have to but it helps the game not be illegal

EndgameEnthusiast2357
long_quach wrote:
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

It's not a warning thing, the king has to be under attack, whether he is aware of it or not.

If I have the King in check, and he is not aware of it, and moves another piece, leaving the King en prise,

can I kill the King?

Checkmate means the king will be killed next move. Whether the king is actually captured or not is irrelevant. I know the interesting case of a "checklock" where having no moves while in check would be like a stalemate, but just classifying that as a normal checkmate solves that. It's just semantics.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Sure, why not? Since the goal of chess is to kill the King, any player who has successfully trapped the king are likely going to take advantage of that and take the king. The only way allowing kings to walk into check would affect the game would be that one side could gamble, walk his King through check, like say, a bishops diagonal in the Endgame to obtain an advantage, hoping the opponent doesn't see they can take the king. But if they do, it's an instant loss. Whether the game actually ends at checkmate or king capture is just as trivial as asking whether these moves should actually be played out:

EndgameEnthusiast2357

And this a draw:

Do you realize how backward that becomes?? The case where the king is actually under attack becomes a draw, yet the case where the king isn't under attack would be a win?

V_Awful_Chess
long_quach wrote:

Only I realize this. I know why there is a stalemate rule.

I first learned a chess by word of mouth, not by reading official rules.

I did not know the "announce check" rule.

Logic. The objective of the game is to kill the king. If I have the opponent's king in check, why should I tell him that he is in check? If he'd didn't pay attention, I'll kill his king, just like any other pieces.

From that I realize that saying "check" is a gentleman's rule.

Say check. The King has to move out of check.

Next step, the King cannot move into check, or stay where he is at check.

Next step, the King cannot move into check, so it is a draw.

It's just an extension of a gentleman's rule.

Historically stalemate has been a mix so it's hard to tell.

-In some of the continent, stalemate was "half a win" for the stalemating player (in the sense of getting half the ante from betting).

-In Britain, the stalemated player was the winner, not the stalemating one. I think the logic for that was that the stalemating player was punished for being a) unskilled and b) forcing an illegal move. But also it was seen as a comeback mechanic. There was great resistance to making stalemate a draw in England because people liked the idea of a potential comeback mechanic when you are losing.

BL4D3RUNN3R

Do you think that all rules which make chess simpler will make it better?

jetoba
long_quach wrote:
jetoba wrote:
long_quach wrote:

@EndgameEnthusiast2357

Answer the question.

Why must I announce "check" if the object of the game is to kill the King?

The logic of the game is:

The pieces move a certain way.

Move the pieces to kill the King.

Why must I warn the King?

You do not have to warn the opponent. In competitions if everybody says check all of the time then some games between lower-rated players would have a constant metronome of check-check-check that would disturb the other games.

You still cannot capture the king, but touch move does apply and could be disastrous for the checked player.

You are missing the idea.

If I don't have to say "check",

and my opponent does not know that he is in check,

and he moves another piece

can I take the King?

I bolded a sentence in my original post that already answered it. You cannot ever simply capture the king (but see the PS). Leaving the king in check is an illegal move and is prohibited (in FIDE competitions two illegal moves lose the game).

Touch move does apply, so if the opponent made an illegal move then they are obligated to make a legal move with the first piece they touched or captured that can still be moved or taken. If somebody in check moved a queen to a square (without making a capture) then that queen would still to move if it can be legally moved to stop the check, and if that means it's only move is to block the check without being protected then the queen has to block the check regardless of whether or not there are better moves in the position. If a piece took another piece (not the one giving check) and the capturing piece does not have a legal move then the captured piece must still be captured if there is any capture that ends the check. An example is White Kg1, Qe2, Rd3, Pc4, Black Kh8, Qe8, Bc5, Ne3 and Black plays Ng2 (discovered check planning to trade queens and play Nf4+ forking the king and rook and going) where Qxg2 does not stop the check - even though Kf1 would escape the check touch move means Kxg2 (followed by Qxe2+ and Qxd3 and a K+Q+B vs K+P ending) or Qf2 (followed by Bxf2+ and a K+Q+N vs K+R+P ending) would be required depending on whether the queen was touched first before capturing the knight or the knight was removed from the board before moving the queen to g2.

PS the only time you can legitimately take the king is in a blitz competition if capturing the king is a way of claiming a win due to an opponent's illegal move (many blitz competitions award a win if an opponent's illegal move is claimed and that is any illegal move, not just leaving the king in check), but be very very certain that the rules of the competition do not consider taking the king to be illegal and that your capture of the opponent's king would cause you to lose.