studying Endgame first, or Openings.

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kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... Bring us any game you played, and you will see how that process works. Any game you ever played, the process of selection is based on the same principle: an avoidance of the most dangerous reply by your opponent and your survival reply to that reply, and so on until the position is quiet. ...

Do you have some reason to rule out the idea that a player is making what he or she considers to be a reasonable effort to try to avoid the most dangerous reply of the opponent and be able to make a survival reply and so on?

 

 Time. The lower-rated players are always the first ones to finish their games in tournaments, with the highest-rated players, always finishing last. Lower-rated players simply don’t like to think, get excited about some tricky idea and don’t have the patience to verify if the move is sound or not.

  That is not a ‘reasonable effort’. On the contrary, it is quite lousy.

Avatar of troy7915
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... watch yourself during a game, and pay close attention to the process of selecting the best move possible under the time constraints you’re playing. ...

What I see is myself making what I consider to be a reasonable effort (both at the time and before the game) to try to enable myself to select the best move possible.

 Of course, all lower-rated players have a strong image about themselves as players, which is why their thinking is chaotic. Look at yourself: you do not seem capable of following a simple logic that explains how the games are being both lost and won, apart from you, in general.

  When you will reach the expert level, you will begin to experience the opposite: you will verify like 5 times before making up your mind, and that is also inefficient.

 But remember, if you don’t look at yourself critically, impartially and without any emotion, like it’s about somebody else, your future progress will be limited.  Your imagining that you’re trying your best—when thinking during the game is not orderly but clearly chaotic—is already an obstacle.

Avatar of troy7915
Grizzlygrisu wrote:

I would start to study endgames first. In the endgames you can´t correct mistakes and you learn what your peaces can do or not, also you learn how to coordinate them.

 

  Studying endgames first is rather useless, if you start with 1. f3 and fail to distinguish strong candidates from the ones that lose the game on the spot, because the process required to verify their soundness is simply missing.

Avatar of kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

Dear, you are a 1500 player, you are doing it yourself, by default, and ...

From a rating, you feel that you know that a player is hoping for the best case-scenario?

troy7915 wrote: "... The point is not whether you are hoping for the best-case scenario or the second-best, or the third-best.. ..."

Well, who was it who brought up this "hoping for the best move-scenario" thing? (See post #204) If, a player accepts that a move may not be best, isn't it entirely up to the player to decide what amount of effort to undertake?

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:

... you are not considering the most dangerous reply by your opponent along with your reply to that reply, before deciding what move to make, consistently, on every move you make. ...

I only make what I consider to be a reasonable effort to consider the most dangerous reply by an opponent along with my reply to that reply.

Avatar of troy7915

Obviously not. Bring any game you ever played and you will see that you are imagining you are doing that, not actually doing it. Any game, your pick.

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... clearly, settling for Alapin won’t make you a Sicilian expert. For modest aspirations, any tackling will do. Sveshnikov played hundreds of games in Alapin and the original Grand Prix Attack. But Sveshnikov never came close to challenging the title: an easy way out which brought him some monetary rewards, but he failed in regards to at least trying to be the best of the best. He settled for less, and this is exactly what Nunn had in mind when he offered those ‘side doors’: players who will settle for less.

So your comments don't apply to those who are willing to settle for less than the best of the best?

... Of course not, ...

Do you have an estimate of the percentage of players who want to try to be the best of the best?

Avatar of troy7915
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

Dear, you are a 1500 player, you are doing it yourself, by default, and ...

From a rating, you feel that you know that a player is hoping for the best case-scenario?

troy7915 wrote: "... The point is not whether you are hoping for the best-case scenario or the second-best, or the third-best.. ..."

Well, who was it who brought up this "hoping for the best move-scenario" thing? (See post #204) If, a player accepts that a move may not be best, isn't it entirely up to the player to decide what amount of effort to undertake?

 The player doesn’t know whether it is the best-case scenario for him, or second or third-best, during the actual game. That is actually revealed after the game. During the game he is considering a pleasant reply from the opponent, especially if is enamored with some idea of his, in other words he is looking for a justification to play that move anyway. Even if he is considering strong replies by his opponent, he fails to carefully calculate until the position is quiet, looking for most threatening moves on each side.

 Look no further than your games: you will see the same failure in each every game you ever played.

Avatar of troy7915
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... clearly, settling for Alapin won’t make you a Sicilian expert. For modest aspirations, any tackling will do. Sveshnikov played hundreds of games in Alapin and the original Grand Prix Attack. But Sveshnikov never came close to challenging the title: an easy way out which brought him some monetary rewards, but he failed in regards to at least trying to be the best of the best. He settled for less, and this is exactly what Nunn had in mind when he offered those ‘side doors’: players who will settle for less.

So your comments don't apply to those who are willing to settle for less than the best of the best?

... Of course not, ...

Do you have an estimate of the percentage of players who want to try to be the best of the best?

 

  Is that relevant? Mediocrity defines the world in general, percentage-wise. It is only logical that if one wants to take up something, they would want to excel and be the best of the best, instead of setting limits from the start. Either at least try to excel or don’t do it, just watch tv and ‘enjoy’ life. Which is why I never understood why people have hobbies...

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... get familiar with how you yourself are selecting what is supposed to be the best move. ...

Who is doing this supposing?

  During the game, you are supposedly looking for the best move, ...

I am making what I consider to be a reasonable effort to look for the best move.

Avatar of Chesseract557
troy7915 wrote:

 And yet the thinking process is the most important change for a relative beginner.

Ultimately, yes, that is true. 

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... Bring us any game you played, and you will see how that process works. Any game you ever played, the process of selection is based on the same principle: an avoidance of the most dangerous reply by your opponent and your survival reply to that reply, and so on until the position is quiet. ...

Do you have some reason to rule out the idea that a player is making what he or she considers to be a reasonable effort to try to avoid the most dangerous reply of the opponent and be able to make a survival reply and so on?

 Time. The lower-rated players are always the first ones to finish their games in tournaments, with the highest-rated players, always finishing last. Lower-rated players simply don’t like to think, get excited about some tricky idea and don’t have the patience to verify if the move is sound or not.

  That is not a ‘reasonable effort’. On the contrary, it is quite lousy.

My question was about whether or not a player is making what he or she considers to be a reasonable effort. My question was not about what troy7915 would consider to be a reasonable effort.

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... watch yourself during a game, and pay close attention to the process of selecting the best move possible under the time constraints you’re playing. ...

What I see is myself making what I consider to be a reasonable effort (both at the time and before the game) to try to enable myself to select the best move possible.

...  Your imagining that you’re trying your best ...

What makes you think that I am imagining that?

Avatar of troy7915

Your rating, dear. You are simply not aware of how you think.

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... watch yourself during a game, and pay close attention to the process of selecting the best move possible under the time constraints you’re playing. ...

What I see is myself making what I consider to be a reasonable effort (both at the time and before the game) to try to enable myself to select the best move possible.

 Of course, all lower-rated players have a strong image about themselves as players, ...

What percentage of lower-rated players have you encountered? What method do you use to determine the strength of their self-image?

Avatar of troy7915
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... Bring us any game you played, and you will see how that process works. Any game you ever played, the process of selection is based on the same principle: an avoidance of the most dangerous reply by your opponent and your survival reply to that reply, and so on until the position is quiet. ...

Do you have some reason to rule out the idea that a player is making what he or she considers to be a reasonable effort to try to avoid the most dangerous reply of the opponent and be able to make a survival reply and so on?

 Time. The lower-rated players are always the first ones to finish their games in tournaments, with the highest-rated players, always finishing last. Lower-rated players simply don’t like to think, get excited about some tricky idea and don’t have the patience to verify if the move is sound or not.

  That is not a ‘reasonable effort’. On the contrary, it is quite lousy.

My question was about whether or not a player is making what he or she considers to be a reasonable effort. My question was not about what troy7915 would consider to be a reasonable effort.

 It is not reasonable if you keep doing it: it is the only reason you are losing a game and the only reason you are winning one, when the opponent does the same thing. Oftentimes, you are both doing it, that is both blundering but none of you notices and the game continues more than it should.

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Avatar of kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... you are not considering the most dangerous reply by your opponent along with your reply to that reply, before deciding what move to make, consistently, on every move you make. ...

I only make what I consider to be a reasonable effort to consider the most dangerous reply by an opponent along with my reply to that reply.

troy7915 wrote: "Obviously not. Bring any game you ever played and you will see that you are imagining you are doing that, not actually doing it. Any game, your pick."

I already agree that I am not trying to be the best of the best, but that is not my concept of a reasonable effort. My statement was about "what I consider to be a reasonable effort".

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote (#204): "... they are hoping for the best case-scenario, ..."
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

Dear, you are a 1500 player, you are doing it yourself, by default, and ...

From a rating, you feel that you know that a player is hoping for the best case-scenario?

troy7915 wrote: "... The point is not whether you are hoping for the best-case scenario or the second-best, or the third-best.. ..."

Well, who was it who brought up this "hoping for the best move-scenario" thing? (See post #204) If, a player accepts that a move may not be best, isn't it entirely up to the player to decide what amount of effort to undertake?

 The player doesn’t know whether it is the best-case scenario for him, or second or third-best, during the actual game. ... During the game he is considering a pleasant reply from the opponent, especially if is enamored with some idea of his, in other words he is looking for a justification to play that move anyway. ...

If, a player accepts that a move may not be best, isn't it entirely up to the player to decide what amount of effort to undertake?

Avatar of kindaspongey
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
troy7915 wrote:

... clearly, settling for Alapin won’t make you a Sicilian expert. For modest aspirations, any tackling will do. Sveshnikov played hundreds of games in Alapin and the original Grand Prix Attack. But Sveshnikov never came close to challenging the title: an easy way out which brought him some monetary rewards, but he failed in regards to at least trying to be the best of the best. He settled for less, and this is exactly what Nunn had in mind when he offered those ‘side doors’: players who will settle for less.

So your comments don't apply to those who are willing to settle for less than the best of the best?

... Of course not, ...

Do you have an estimate of the percentage of players who want to try to be the best of the best?

  Is that relevant? Mediocrity defines the world in general, percentage-wise. ...

So your comments do not apply to the chess world in general?