Suicide over Chess? Why?

Lycine: I've read two biographies and a fair number of articles on Fischer.

Fischer's mental problems were obvious to those around him from an early age. Robert Byrne and Pal Benko recommended that Fischer see a psychiatrist. Fischer's mother arranged for Fischer to see Reuben Fine, the grandmaster and psychologist, several times and when Fischer realized Fine was trying to help him, Fischer reacted with anger and paranoia.

And that's enough of that.

Fischer attracts some really unpleasant types on this site -- to defend him and attack him -- and the discussions go nowhere.

Rest in peace, Bobby.

What a shame,  but understandable.  All it takes is one moment of the right combination of despair and energy to trigger a suicide attempt.

When you suffer a mental illness (my diagnosis is major depressive disorder),  your mind can seize upon the most irrational things to twist into the sickness.  Even chess.

If you need help, these are the folks in the US to call.   If you aren't in the US,  please consider adding a post to this thread with the contact information for your local helpline.

no it's not enough of that. Do you require a history lesson about the psychiatry profession in the USA in the early and mid 20th century? To judge Fischer for rejecting that is ignorant to say the least. I'm merely a messenger of truth. If you find that unpleasent then it doesn't look good for you. And when I say the least I mean it.

ipcress12 wrote:

Lycine: I've read two biographies

And that's enough of that.

Fischer attracts some really unpleasant types on this site -- to defend him and attack him -- and the discussions go nowhere.

Rest in peace, Bobby.

I once was awakened at 3 AM by the police at my door. There had been a rainstorm that night, my phone connection had gone bad, and apparently the phone system had interpreted the random noises on my line as a 911 call.

I had to let the police in and show them I wasn't being held hostage or something.

RIP dude.

Avoiding the endgame by resigning is kinda lame.

he was 167 ecf

so working on the ecf to fide conversion (ecf x 7.5 + 700 = fide)

fide = 1953

This post is a little misleading. Who are we to purport to know the underlying reasons behind his suicide? Maybe chess was the tipping point, some perceived lack of intellect that he couldn't accept, but it seems like there may have been many contributing factors.

I've been emotionally charged before and lost it when I made a miscalculation that I otherwise wouldn't have cared much about. Seems somewhat insulting to th man's legacy to say he killed himelf over some chess games.

@Lycine: Most of the time I have found that people who say they are messengers of truth or seekers of truth actually aren't either. They tend to have preconceived ideas and will not change their mind no matter what is presented to them. I would strongly suggest that you take a look at the documentary "Bobby Fischer Against The World" or read Frank Brady's book "EndGame". There are also other documentaries out there that basically say the same thing in that something was definitely wrong with Bobby Fischer mentally. I have also met several people who have known Bobby Fischer throughout his career that includes the late GM Larry Evans, GM Susan Polgar, and former world champion Anatoly Karpov. Bobby Fischer was obsessed with chess and when he gave up chess he had to replace that obsession with other things. As time went on he got worse and worse. In the end he ended up hating not only Jews & Russia, but also the United States, and even hating chess. (He would only play Fischer random.) He was so paranoid that he trusted nobody, which ended up alienating everybody that tried to help him. I suggest you read the article in the the best chess magazine New-In-Chess 2015#3 "Facing Bobby Fischer" for insight into his mental health. 🐾

(((Lycine wrote:

no it's not enough of that. Do you require a history lesson about the psychiatry profession in the USA in the early and mid 20th century? To judge Fischer for rejecting that is ignorant to say the least. I'm merely a messenger of truth. If you find that unpleasent then it doesn't look good for you. And when I say the least I mean it.

ipcress12 wrote:

Lycine: I've read two biographies

And that's enough of that.

Fischer attracts some really unpleasant types on this site -- to defend him and attack him -- and the discussions go nowhere.

Rest in peace, Bobby.)))

@Whip_Kitten: I do too! An this is been a bad year... 🐾

Whip_Kitten: After I gave up chess in my early twenties, I devoted my free time to writing and poetry. I've spent much more time on writing than chess.

I thought I was making a move in a healthy direction, away from all the stuffy left-brain preoccupations -- science, math and chess -- towards creativity and life.

I did meet some fun, fascinating people. But the circle of poets I ended up in were quite self-destructive as well. Of the ten of us, one killed himself with pills, two essentially drank themselves to death, and another ended up in the nuthouse.

Chess players can be a serious PITA, but they are way overrated when it comes to the Real Crazy.

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quality post

It was a lifetime of chess which was his obsession and his passion. He had expectations of himself that he perceived he could not fill. The feeling of being a failure at what you love so much can drive you to this end.

Yes. Everyone lives with dashed hopes--often hopes dashed far more cruelly than being stuck with a 1953 chess rating.

But only ten out of a hundred thousand Americans commit suicide each year. Of those 90% are mentally ill.

(Suicide rates vary for age, gender, race and enthinicity but the numbers remain tiny.)

Kay Jamison's "NIght Falls Fast: Understanding Suicide" is the best book I've read on the subject.

Poets, the lifeblood of Wellbutrin.

With my mood disorder, I stay away from poets....

Whip_Kitten: Not a bad idea. I do too, although it's more the other way around these days.

Creative people are more prone to suicide and mental illness--the numbers are there if you look for them. But I also believe modern poets made mental illness a badge of honor which was bad for everyone.

Happily the Suffering Artist myth seems to be dying out.

iMacChess wrote:

@Lycine: Most of the time I have found that people who say they are messengers of truth or seekers of truth actually aren't either. They tend to have preconceived ideas and will not change their mind no matter what is presented to them. I would strongly suggest that you take a look at the documentary "Bobby Fischer Against The World" or read Frank Brady's book "EndGame". There are also other documentaries out there that basically say the same thing in that something was definitely wrong with Bobby Fischer mentally. I have also met several people who have known Bobby Fischer throughout his career that includes the late GM Larry Evans, GM Susan Polgar, and former world champion Anatoly Karpov. Bobby Fischer was obsessed with chess and when he gave up chess he had to replace that obsession with other things. As time went on he got worse and worse. In the end he ended up hating not only Jews & Russia, but also the United States, and even hating chess. (He would only play Fischer random.) He was so paranoid that he trusted nobody, which ended up alienating everybody that tried to help him. I suggest you read the article in the the best chess magazine New-In-Chess 2015#3 "Facing Bobby Fischer" for insight into his mental health. 🐾

(((Lycine wrote:

no it's not enough of that. Do you require a history lesson about the psychiatry profession in the USA in the early and mid 20th century? To judge Fischer for rejecting that is ignorant to say the least. I'm merely a messenger of truth. If you find that unpleasent then it doesn't look good for you. And when I say the least I mean it.

ipcress12 wrote:

Lycine: I've read two biographies

And that's enough of that.

Fischer attracts some really unpleasant types on this site -- to defend him and attack him -- and the discussions go nowhere.

Rest in peace, Bobby.)))

You ignored what I said which is typical of someone like you. Let me tell you about people like you. You have an inability to process an argument and repeat anything you see. You will spend all of your time repeating little facts you come across like a gerbil on a treadmill. That's the maximum capability to contemplate the information I have provided and failed to process it. Everything I've said so far mitigates all diagnosis.

Chessmicky: Good material!

However, given that there are about 1500 GMs now and who knows how many if we go back to Rubinstein or include all the IMs, that is a tiny, tiny number of suicides and mental patients.

All I'm saying is I see no evidence that chess players suffer unusally from mental problems compared to other groups.

@Lycine:

(((You ignored what I said which is typical of someone like you. Let me tell you about people like you. You have an inability to process an argument and repeat anything you see. You will spend all of your time repeating little facts you come across like a gerbil on a treadmill. That's the maximum capability to contemplate the information I have provided and failed to process it. Everything I've said so far mitigates all diagnosis)))

You talk a lot but you say nothing! I might as will be talking to a wall. Messenger of truth, what a joke. I agree with the others you should start your own thread, and leave the rest of us alone. This is the last I have to say on this matter. Nuff Said... 🐾

From what I can tell, most people vaguely consider suicide at some point, but very few attempt it and fewer still succeed.

It's a big, important difference.

The people I know who succeeded were all unconventional people, typically with substance abuse problems or certified mental illness, who were suffering like they had toothaches that wouldn't stop and no dentists for treatment.

Suicide is an extreme act.