The Amateur's Mind

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Avatar of Applefield

Wow just read every word in this thread. Thinking of buying this book. Btw Kudos to you Elubas, very well written.

Avatar of krantzr
an_arbitrary_name wrote:

orangehonda:

While I am not a Master, I certainly am not the kind of undeveloped player you're thinking of.  I think you're missing the point.

I'd imagine that the vast majority of chess players look at tactics before strategy in general, whether they're a GM or a beginner.  Don't forget that even GMs occasionally make tactical blunders.

Besides, I would say that, in order to understand the strategic situation on the board, you must first understand the tactical situation on the board.  It's no good looking at your queenside space advantage and thinking of advancing pawns there when you aren't even aware of the individual moves (tactics) available to both sides.  I think that strategic thinking is meaningless without a tactical understanding of the position in question.

I think it's very easy to fall into th are trap of trying to prioritize tactics opositionally from strategy.  This is not the case.  Tactics and Strategy are two aspects of an integrated activity.  Tactics is execution, Strategy is long term planning.  Since Chess is a game symbolizing the battlefield lets use that metaphor:  it would be absurd for a general to think in terms planning the campaign but paying no attention to things like supply line and communications.  On the other hand to focus on the supply chain without giving a thought as to where those supplies aught to go is just as absurd.  Of course immediate positional play is an imporatnt factor.  But divorced from stragegic insight?  I think for example in my own play, I have little concept of the strategic value of the position irrespective of material advantage.  Being able to see the deeper structure of the game definately is the hallmark of a more accomplished player than myself.

Avatar of mattyf9
krantzr wrote:
an_arbitrary_name wrote:

orangehonda:

While I am not a Master, I certainly am not the kind of undeveloped player you're thinking of.  I think you're missing the point.

I'd imagine that the vast majority of chess players look at tactics before strategy in general, whether they're a GM or a beginner.  Don't forget that even GMs occasionally make tactical blunders.

Besides, I would say that, in order to understand the strategic situation on the board, you must first understand the tactical situation on the board.  It's no good looking at your queenside space advantage and thinking of advancing pawns there when you aren't even aware of the individual moves (tactics) available to both sides.  I think that strategic thinking is meaningless without a tactical understanding of the position in question.

I think it's very easy to fall into th are trap of trying to prioritize tactics opositionally from strategy.  This is not the case.  Tactics and Strategy are two aspects of an integrated activity.  Tactics is execution, Strategy is long term planning.  Since Chess is a game symbolizing the battlefield lets use that metaphor:  it would be absurd for a general to think in terms planning the campaign but paying no attention to things like supply line and communications.  On the other hand to focus on the supply chain without giving a thought as to where those supplies aught to go is just as absurd.  Of course immediate positional play is an imporatnt factor.  But divorced from stragegic insight?  I think for example in my own play, I have little concept of the strategic value of the position irrespective of material advantage.  Being able to see the deeper structure of the game definately is the hallmark of a more accomplished player than myself.

This analogy is ridiculous lol.

Avatar of Amnesiack

I'm pretty sure silman's technique is for positional use, in any position you should look for tactics, but when there are no immediate tactics available, then these techniques are to be used. Simple.

Avatar of cannae_216_BC

I find it genuinely hilarious that 1400 on chess.com would criticize an IM's thinking technique.

Avatar of x-2133653114

First of all, your not an IM. 2nd, What do individual moves have to do with tactics??? Of course if there is a tactic available you see and do. If not then you must take into account the imbalances of the position in order to make canidate moves. Strategy basically generates tactics and is the majority of a game. It seperate really good players from everyone else.

Avatar of fugue113
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of BetweenTheWheels

Whose post are you commenting on? Not that it matters, because all of them are between 2 and 7 years old. I don't get the mentality of bumping a dormant thread just to criticize a post in it. Very suspicious, as Finegold would say.

Avatar of kindaspongey

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708094419/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/ammind.pdf

Avatar of Chiapanekov

“Individual moves” Not is tactic, individual moves are simple threats without a plan.

”I see a horse and I attack it, my opponent defends and I lost a time without winning anything”

Avatar of Chiapanekov

My process is simple:
1. I analyze my opponent's play.
2. I analyze tactically
3. positional evaluation (imbalances)
4. I choose movement.

I DO NOT NEED TO EVALUATE Imbalances IN EACH MOVEMENT BECAUSE I DO NOT "INDIVIDUAL MOVEMENTS", the game maintains certain thread, certain coherence.

Silman forces you to practice positional evaluation hard, practicing it in each movement will make it perfect, memorize it, internalize it, but IN A REAL GAME EVERYTHING WILL BE MORE PRACTICAL BECAUSE YOUR GAME CARRIES COHERENCE.

Avatar of Roo_2_Unlimited

Sometimes there is NO plan in the position simply a number of plausibilities.  How does Silman help you there?  Please explain?

Avatar of Chiapanekov
robbie_1969 escribió:

Sometimes there is NO plan in the position simply a number of plausibilities.  How does Silman help you there?  Please explain?

Before reaching the possibilities ... you play with a plan (which is adapted to what the opponent plays, the plan may change), the possibilities are Candidate Movements that arise from the evaluation. You can choose the way you want to play, I do not care, I do not care about your life in the least. My opinion is that Silman forces you to work hard in ONE PART of the real game process. Remember ... even without moving the pieces at the beginning you play based on a plan ... but you look for tactics.

"Sometimes there is not tactics..."

 

Avatar of Piperose

I've considered this book once before, and still wonder if I should now ...

Avatar of Roo_2_Unlimited
Chiapanekov wrote:
robbie_1969 escribió:

Sometimes there is NO plan in the position simply a number of plausibilities.  How does Silman help you there?  Please explain?

Before reaching the possibilities ... you play with a plan (which is adapted to what the opponent plays, the plan may change), the possibilities are Candidate Movements that arise from the evaluation. You can choose the way you want to play, I do not care, I do not care about your life in the least. My opinion is that Silman forces you to work hard in ONE PART of the real game process. Remember ... even without moving the pieces at the beginning you play based on a plan ... but you look for tactics.

"Sometimes there is not tactics..."

 

 Sorry I can't seem to locate the answer to how does Silman help us when there is no plan? Let me help you,

Silman helps us when there is no plan because. . . .(insert valid reason here)

 

Avatar of Roo_2_Unlimited
Piperose wrote:

I've considered this book once before, and still wonder if I should now ...

runaway, as far away from that book as you can get.

Avatar of kindaspongey
robbie_1969 wrote:

Sometimes there is NO plan in the position simply a number of plausibilities.  How does Silman help you there?  Please explain?

Has it been claimed that Silman is helpful in all positions?
"... confirming Silman's status as the king of instructional writers. ..." - IM John Watson (2007)
http://www.theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/theres-an-end-to-it-all

Avatar of Roo_2_Unlimited

Good now we are getting somewhere.  So Silman is only really good for the cherry picked positions in his books, for practical purposes he is essentially useless.  Just ask the BYP, he couldn’t break 800 after getting high on Silman.  He was too busy making plans to notice he was getting mated.

Avatar of kindaspongey
robbie_1969 wrote:

... So Silman is only really good for the cherry picked positions in his books, for practical purposes he is essentially useless.  Just ask the BYP, he couldn’t break 800 after getting high on Silman.  He was too busy making plans to notice he was getting mated.

"Jeremy Silman's HOW TO REASSESS YOUR CHESS is an example of a good book which explains many important ideas in clear terms." - GM John Nunn (2006)

"How to Reassess Your Chess, 4th Edition was designed for players in the 1400 to 2100 range." - IM Jeremy Silman (2010)

"... Just because a book contains lots of information that you don’t know, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be extremely helpful in making you better at this point in your chess development. ..." - Dan Heisman (2001)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf

A BYP game: 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Nc6 4 Ng5 d5 5 exd5 Nxd5 6 Nxf7 Kxf7 7 Qf3+ Ke8 8 Bxd5 Qf6 9 Bxc6+ bxc6 10 Qxc6+ Qxc6 11 c3 Qe4+ 12 Kf1 Ba6+ 13 Kg1 Qe1#

Avatar of Roo_2_Unlimited

GM John Nunn?  the same thing could be said about a Lego instruction diagram. A typical shilling statement that purports to say everything and infact says nothing.  Heisman cannot be trusted either he gave one of the worst lectures I listened to on how to improve calculation.  None of these Silman flunkies can be trusted.  The BYP is the empirical evidence for anyone thinking that Silman can help them improve.   I demand evidence from anyone that reading Silman has resulted in a single rating point increase.