The horrors of the drawoffer

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Avatar of Elubas
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

It's funny - Kasparov's comment about the Marshall was exactly that it was boring and drawish. If I recall correctly, something like "another high-level game, another Marshall, another draw".


Well it's super played out by the GM's, but considering it took that long, and that most amateurs wouldn't play out 25 moves of marshall theory, I think it would probably lead to some interesting play. It was the one time I played against it. it's an interesting opening, but most of the complications had just been played out at the top.

Avatar of ozzie_c_cobblepot

So then study endgames.

I used to feel that way, then I think my endings improved, at least relative to my middlegames. So now when the endgame approaches, I'm totally confident that I can hold drawn but slightly worse positions and I even think I can get a win sometimes out of a slightly better position. That's the whole key of endgames. The sure wins are easy, the sure losses are just gone -- the dead draws are dead. Maximize the points you get out of the "slightly better" and "slightly worse" games.

I'd rather have a win and a loss, all else being equal.

Avatar of ozzie_c_cobblepot
Elubas wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

It's funny - Kasparov's comment about the Marshall was exactly that it was boring and drawish. If I recall correctly, something like "another high-level game, another Marshall, another draw".


Well it's super played out by the GM's, but considering it took that long, and that most amateurs wouldn't play out 25 moves of marshall theory, I think it would probably lead to some interesting play. It was the one time I played against it. it's an interesting opening, but most of the complications had just been played out at the top.


Just goes to show how different the views of the commonfolk are from the pros. They see the Marshall as drawish, and the Four Knights as an opportunity for inventive dynamic play.

Why does a mirror reverse left-right but not up-down?

Avatar of Elubas
Artsew wrote:

Hello,

I just wrote an article on "the horrors of the drawoffer".  Feel free to check it out on my website  If you are low on time, you can just read the intro I made on my blog on this site.

Wether you read it or not I am very interested in your opinion regarding draws.

My question to you is: If you play two games, do you rather draw twice or win one and lose one? Please explain your pick.


About drawing stronger players with good positions. I know too that you can't be afraid to play out your better positions MOST OF THE TIME. However, consider you're below on time, only somewhat better, you're rated 400 points below your opponent, the game is super tactical, AND you never won or drawn against anyone that much higher. At that point you should be realistic that although we really want to win it will be very tough and considering the time pressure you could blow it extremely easily. This happened to me yesterday, and I proudly claimed my first draw against someone rated approximately expert strength. Now with not all losses, will I play for a win more? Quite possibly. If the position is not complicated and I'm simply a pawn up, then yes I will try for the win, but some positions are MUCH more complicated so an always play on policy will probably get burned in some cases (and pay off in others, but you should still be open to settling for a draw depending on the circumstance).

Avatar of Elubas
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Elubas wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

It's funny - Kasparov's comment about the Marshall was exactly that it was boring and drawish. If I recall correctly, something like "another high-level game, another Marshall, another draw".


Well it's super played out by the GM's, but considering it took that long, and that most amateurs wouldn't play out 25 moves of marshall theory, I think it would probably lead to some interesting play. It was the one time I played against it. it's an interesting opening, but most of the complications had just been played out at the top.


Just goes to show how different the views of the commonfolk are from the pros. They see the Marshall as drawish, and the Four Knights as an opportunity for inventive dynamic play.

Why does a mirror reverse left-right but not up-down?


I think of super GM chess as a completely different world, seperating them from everyone else.

Avatar of ozzie_c_cobblepot

rob9258 Excellent point, I totally forgot about that but I agree with you. Just like the Russian puzzle I posted maybe a year ago. It shows the same possibility of leveraging piece play in simple positions to get better at more complex positions.

The Puzzle: Empty board. White queen on d1, black bishops on c8, f8. Black to move. Yes there are no kings. If black can last for 8 moves without getting a bishop taken, he wins. If white captures a bishop in 7 moves or less he wins.

It's best if you try it against someone OTB. Pretty fun, and obviously has nothing to do with chess, but helps.

Avatar of Atos

I think that he is trying to say that, after an interesting and tight game, a draw will be a somewhat disappointing result. Then again it's better than a loss, and it's not wise to try to win at all costs.

Avatar of pcclynes

as long as the games are interesting I don't mind whether I win lose or draw.

Avatar of Scarblac
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote: Why does a mirror reverse left-right but not up-down?

Mirrors don't reverse left-right either.

HTH.

Avatar of marvellosity
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

It's funny - Kasparov's comment about the Marshall was exactly that it was boring and drawish. If I recall correctly, something like "another high-level game, another Marshall, another draw".


Just because he said it, doesn't mean it has to be right.

I distinctly remember a Kramnik-Leko WC match where the Marshall scored a crushing and pretty win...

Avatar of philidorposition
Artsew wrote:

Hello,

I just wrote an article on "the horrors of the drawoffer".  Feel free to check it out on my website  If you are low on time, you can just read the intro I made on my blog on this site.

Wether you read it or not I am very interested in your opinion regarding draws.

My question to you is: If you play two games, do you rather draw twice or win one and lose one? Please explain your pick.


With everything else being equal, given that I hate losing so much, I would probably be happier with 2 draws.

Avatar of Atos

The question seems artificial to me, there would be no point in playing if you knew the result in advance.

Avatar of Tyzer

I would rather go for two draws as well, for the exact same reason as tonydal. I'm a bad loser. :P

Avatar of Atos
padman wrote:

Accepting or offering a draw would be like a Spartan bowing to a Persian. (unless the position is really dead-drawn).

'til death!


The creed of that person who will keep pushing wood to and fro in an obviously drawn situation.