The London system-How to defeat?

Yes, I am one of those London haters. I absolutely hate the London system. d4 Bf4, I can predict their next hundred or so moves. Also, I keep losing against it. The main reason why I play the Englund gambit so much is that 1: it prevents Bf4, and 2:there are several people at my level who premove Bf4 and hang the bishop. But this will only hold out for so long. What is the modern refutation to the London system?

P.S, I know it has something to do with c5, but that's about it.

"I can predict their next hundred or so moves. Also, I keep losing against it. "

Thats quite a contradiction.

It's not refutable, and there are many different popular / reasonable ways to play against it.

I can understand how it might be frustrating, but you just have to focus on playing solid moves, allowing the game to stay equal and develop naturally. After that you can look for your chances later in the game.

Although I guess I could add that setups with d6 are probably annoying for lower level London players because it doesn't let them play Ne5... which is probably the only thing they know how to do (put a knight on e5 and then attack and hope it works out in the end).

So you play d6 with an eventual e5 or c5, and as a good general rule for any sort of similar pawn structure, don't capture their d pawn until they've finished (or nearly finished) development. Capturing early opens liens and a square, so it tends to make development easier / give them more options.

Just wait till you get to level 3 https://www.chess.com/blog/zibbit/the-anti-anti-london-system

Clicked link, and looked at first diagram.

"That's a dumb recommendation for black what is this guy's rating?"

OP is an FM

"Wonder if it's some idiot FM then, what the hell?"

Starts reading and sees it was agadmator's suggestion and FM says it's bad.

"Oh, ok."

A lot of people don't realize how useful it is to be practical in your opening selection... particularly for lower rated players who don't have GM aspirations, choose an opening that has clear ideas and doesn't have a million variations.

1. d4    Nf3    2. Bf4    g6   is worth looking into.

Isn't there just no defense to mate after Rxg2 Be5? better than Rxf2

Also why did you put a puzzle here

nope, f3

I play this

I'm very happy if they play nc3 and don't play the pyramid. I'm extremely happy if they play qc1 as in the future I like to play g6 bg7 and plop the bishop on f5. If c3, I just take the pawn. So I can kind of dictate the pace of the game with these moves. If white pushes instead of playing e3 I play d6 and turn it into a Benoni-ish game. 

I just play a Semi-Tarrasch structure, reach an even position, then strive to outplay my opponent from there.

Like any main opening, the way to defeat it is to reach a playable middle-game, then simply ... play chess.

If you premove Bf4 on move 2 then your opponent will do something unexpected with the England gambit and the Bishop is undefended and black is ahead by a piece.

London is just a standard opening. It's not a trap or a trick, it's just solid development. Why does that make you angry...

I like opening with the London as either color. In my latest game my opponent opened with the London, or maybe it's considered a variation to start queen's pawn then king's knight, then finally the bishop and king's pawn advancing 1 - but since that's what I prefer to do anyway, I was happy to mirror those 4 opening moves. 

When they open with king's pawn I counter with king's pawn also, so then I don't get to play the London as black. I just can't stand white having a pawn in my middle center on move 2, so I always block it.

Well assuming you're playing people with similar rating then I have a strategy that works 70% of the time. Just take the london player out of their book, make a couple more moves and write 0-1 in your score card

what if 3. c3

qb6 still, after qc2 or something like that, cxd4 cxd4 and nc6

Ok.