The Queen's Gambit is not a gambit. Change my mind.

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Avatar of Tails204

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

Avatar of Tails204
royalknight101 wrote:

its a gambit, just not a very traditional one

Why do they believe that it's a gambit when someone can always get back their pawn?
In the King's / Halloween / Italian / Wing Gambit you don't have such an opportunity.

Avatar of bla_w_gy
Tails204 wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:

its a gambit, just not a very traditional one

Why do they believe that it's a gambit when someone can always get back their pawn?
In the King's / Halloween / Italian / Wing Gambit you don't have such an opportunity.

I believe this is called a sound gambit. Gambits don’t always have to be unnecessarily risky or dangerous. They’re simply a sacrifice of a pawn or piece in exchange for a better position, not always a wild trap. 

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy

correct, the queen's gambit isn't really a gambit

Avatar of KeSetoKaiba
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

I play this opening a lot and there is a lot of joking with whether or not this opening is a gambit or not. Clearly, it "sacrifices" a pawn and therefore it was named a "gambit" back when the opening was first discovered and named (pre-1600 since that is when Greco was studying openings like this in his games collection; btw, I mean pre YEAR 1600 and not rating wink.png )

Modern consensus has been that the Queen's Gambit is not a "true gambit" since the pawn can always be won back (or a larger advantage via initiative or other compensation if White plays optimally while letting Black keep the "extra" pawn).

Now we get into the debate of what defines a "gambit" opening. It isn't how sound it is...is it? Some "gambit" openings seem to be getting a reputation that they are sound; should we change the names for those openings? If one defines a "gambit" purely by offering material...then 2. c4 offers material and the Queen's Gambit should be called a gambit. 

I just consider this opening a "gambit", but not a "true gambit" (connotation of being an unsound sacrifice attempting to catch the unprepared xD)

Avatar of bla_w_gy

I think it’s safe to say there’s a large range of gambits

Avatar of bla_w_gy

In terms of the kind of compensation you get

Avatar of Optimissed
royalknight101 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:

its a gambit, just not a very traditional one

Why do they believe that it's a gambit when someone can always get back their pawn?
In the King's / Halloween / Italian / Wing Gambit you don't have such an opportunity.

thats exactly the point, you give a pawn in exchange for activity and counterplay just like any other gambit but its not traditional due to the fact on how it can be easily neutralized from both sides without much drastic chances of winning

In the QGA, black gets more activity than in the QGD. What white gets is the centre. The QGA isn't a true gambit although white and black can play it as a gambit. For instance, 1. d4 ...d5 2. c4 ...cd 3. Nf3 ... c6 4. e4 ...b5 or 3. Nc3 ...a6 4. e4 ... b5 are possible lines which are gambit-like.

Avatar of Immaculate_Slayer
Tails204 escreveu:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

You're right lol

Avatar of PerpetualPatzer123
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

I play this opening a lot and there is a lot of joking with whether or not this opening is a gambit or not. Clearly, it "sacrifices" a pawn and therefore it was named a "gambit" back when the opening was first discovered and named (pre-1600 since that is when Greco was studying openings like this in his games collection; btw, I mean pre YEAR 1600 and not rating )

Modern consensus has been that the Queen's Gambit is not a "true gambit" since the pawn can always be won back (or a larger advantage via initiative or other compensation if White plays optimally while letting Black keep the "extra" pawn).

Now we get into the debate of what defines a "gambit" opening. It isn't how sound it is...is it? Some "gambit" openings seem to be getting a reputation that they are sound; should we change the names for those openings? If one defines a "gambit" purely by offering material...then 2. c4 offers material and the Queen's Gambit should be called a gambit. 

I just consider this opening a "gambit", but not a "true gambit" (connotation of being an unsound sacrifice attempting to catch the unprepared xD)

 

Avatar of snoozyman
Botez Gambit is better.
Avatar of talliholic

tails u kinda annoying tbh

Avatar of Stil1
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

White can reclaim the pawn, but in some lines, black can greatly improve his position while white burns time trying to win the pawn back.

Example:

White won the "gambit" pawn back. But now black has connected passed pawns on the a and b files.

White has to play with care, or black will steamroll over him.

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Stil1 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

White can reclaim the pawn, but in some lines, black can greatly improve his position while white burns time trying to win the pawn back.

Example:

White won the "gambit" pawn back. But now black has connected passed pawns on the a and b files.

White has to play with care, or black will steamroll over him.

Funny how this is +0.4 and this is a known variation. Who cares about the connected pawns. It's not an endgame. Because of the light square bishop, because white can make a huge pawn storm, and because white can remove the a pawn with good play and destroy the b pawn later, I would actually like to play white here.

even if it's not the endgame, black can still push the a- and b-pawns very soon, and white has to be very careful 

Avatar of Optimissed
royalknight101 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:

its a gambit, just not a very traditional one

Why do they believe that it's a gambit when someone can always get back their pawn?
In the King's / Halloween / Italian / Wing Gambit you don't have such an opportunity.

thats exactly the point, you give a pawn in exchange for activity and counterplay just like any other gambit but its not traditional due to the fact on how it can be easily neutralized from both sides without much drastic chances of winning

In the QGA, black gets more activity than in the QGD. What white gets is the centre. The QGA isn't a true gambit although white and black can play it as a gambit. For instance, 1. d4 ...d5 2. c4 ...cd 3. Nf3 ... c6 4. e4 ...b5 or 3. Nc3 ...a6 4. e4 ... b5 are possible lines which are gambit-like.

yeah white can neutralize and have a balanced game in the QGD 

Generally, when black plays lines which hold the pawn for a few moves and white plays e4, it can become a genuine gambit because it's the e4 pawn that can drop. I usually play 3. Nf3 and 4. e3. 3.e3 is the easiest way to get back the pawn but black can't hold it after 3. Nf3 and 4 e3, even if white has to take on c4 and then play Qa4+ to get the piece back. Usually the Q side is bust open with a4 and b3, and white can get a lot of play there. I like playing against the QGA and also sometimes play it as black.

Avatar of Optimissed
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Stil1 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

White can reclaim the pawn, but in some lines, black can greatly improve his position while white burns time trying to win the pawn back.

Example:

White won the "gambit" pawn back. But now black has connected passed pawns on the a and b files.

White has to play with care, or black will steamroll over him.

Funny how this is +0.4 and this is a known variation. Who cares about the connected pawns. It's not an endgame. Because of the light square bishop, because white can make a huge pawn storm, and because white can remove the a pawn with good play and destroy the b pawn later, I would actually like to play white here.

even if it's not the endgame, black can still push the a- and b-pawns very soon, and white has to be very careful 

ha! White can just block the a pawn with the light squared bishop and they will be all right.

The lines you're talking about, such as the Noteboom, are theoretically equal but VERY unbalanced.

Avatar of Optimissed
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:
royalknight101 wrote:

its a gambit, just not a very traditional one

Why do they believe that it's a gambit when someone can always get back their pawn?
In the King's / Halloween / Italian / Wing Gambit you don't have such an opportunity.

thats exactly the point, you give a pawn in exchange for activity and counterplay just like any other gambit but its not traditional due to the fact on how it can be easily neutralized from both sides without much drastic chances of winning

In the QGA, black gets more activity than in the QGD. What white gets is the centre. The QGA isn't a true gambit although white and black can play it as a gambit. For instance, 1. d4 ...d5 2. c4 ...cd 3. Nf3 ... c6 4. e4 ...b5 or 3. Nc3 ...a6 4. e4 ... b5 are possible lines which are gambit-like.

yeah white can neutralize and have a balanced game in the QGD 

Generally, when black plays lines which hold the pawn for a few moves and white plays e4, it can become a genuine gambit because it's the e4 pawn that can drop. I usually play 3. Nf3 and 4. e3. 3.e3 is the easiest way to get back the pawn but black can't hold it after 3. Nf3 and 4 e3, even if white has to take on c4 and then play Qa4+ to get the piece back. Usually the Q side is bust open with s4 and b3, and white can get a lot of play there. I like playing against the QGA and also sometimes play it as black.

That's true, but I perfer e3.

I was bust by that move in a tournament. It was a five round weekend major. Either under 1800 or under 1880 (FIDE). I was on three and a half out of four but there were about seven players just behind me and one equal. I had black and I had to win to win the tournament outright, because a draw could have meant a five or six way tie. It was the days before I'd switched from the QGA to the Modern Benoni. It was actually the reason I switched. I was tired and my opponent was experienced. He played 3. e3 and, like s complete fool, I played 3. ...e5 and was positionally outplayed in a queenless middlegame. Looking at it later, the entire thing was better for white, it turned out. I lost and was out of the prizes altogether but in those days I played more for the money than anything else and I was gambling the £150 first prize, in the days when the entry fee was £6, against about £40 if I drew.

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Stil1 wrote:
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

White can reclaim the pawn, but in some lines, black can greatly improve his position while white burns time trying to win the pawn back.

Example:

White won the "gambit" pawn back. But now black has connected passed pawns on the a and b files.

White has to play with care, or black will steamroll over him.

Funny how this is +0.4 and this is a known variation. Who cares about the connected pawns. It's not an endgame. Because of the light square bishop, because white can make a huge pawn storm, and because white can remove the a pawn with good play and destroy the b pawn later, I would actually like to play white here.

even if it's not the endgame, black can still push the a- and b-pawns very soon, and white has to be very careful 

ha! White can just block the a pawn with the light squared bishop and they will be all right.

still not so simple though, because black will bring pieces to the queenside, and the lsb alone will not be enough if you get too carried away in the center and kingside

Avatar of AsherZJ
It is a Gambit
Avatar of Tails204
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Tails204 wrote:

It's not a real gambit because you can always get back your pawn, and if you'll do that, you won't lose anything (if you did it in other gambits, you would lose the advantage).

I've never played this opening, and my opinion may be wrong. I hope you can explain to me why they consider this opening as a gambit.

I play this opening a lot and there is a lot of joking with whether or not this opening is a gambit or not. Clearly, it "sacrifices" a pawn and therefore it was named a "gambit" back when the opening was first discovered and named (pre-1600 since that is when Greco was studying openings like this in his games collection; btw, I mean pre YEAR 1600 and not rating )

Modern consensus has been that the Queen's Gambit is not a "true gambit" since the pawn can always be won back (or a larger advantage via initiative or other compensation if White plays optimally while letting Black keep the "extra" pawn).

Now we get into the debate of what defines a "gambit" opening. It isn't how sound it is...is it? Some "gambit" openings seem to be getting a reputation that they are sound; should we change the names for those openings? If one defines a "gambit" purely by offering material...then 2. c4 offers material and the Queen's Gambit should be called a gambit. 

I just consider this opening a "gambit", but not a "true gambit" (connotation of being an unsound sacrifice attempting to catch the unprepared xD)

Good explanation! Yes, this name is determined only by an old (and wrong) tradition. And perhaps the title "Queen's Gambit" would have sounded appropriate five hundred years ago, but now it is completely irrelevant. It's definitely not a real gambit, but it's a gambit nonetheless, haha.