The tactics trainer is unfair

I am a basic user. I've got my 3 tactics per day that I do religously. I find that the pointing system is very unfair. I am an average player with 1350 in points, but with tactics trainer I struggle to keep over 1000 points.

When I win, I win very little points but when I lose I loose a lot of points. I typically get 6 plus or minus 3 points on wins but I often get -17 (plus or minus 3) on losts. I even regulary get negative points for wins, even for wins I complete BEFORE the time runs out. This is very unfair!

First I should NEVER loose point if I complete the tactics before the time runs out. If you want to penalise people who does not solve the problem before the time given, at least if they solve it after the time runs out you should give/substract 0 point. In other words never loose points if the problem is resolved!

Secondly why you substract so many points when I make a mistake but give so little when I resolve the problem.

Thirdly the time allowed is too short, it is impossible to analyse all the solutions before making a try. Also for portable devices like I use, you are often disturbed making you little chance to win in the time left. Also there is no pause, if I lock the device, when I come back, it's over...you lost 20 points...

Forthly, since we are allowed to retry a failed attemp, we should regain a few points if we succeed the second time.

What do you think?

The time runs out at double the average time. You start losing points if you are the same rating as the puzzle and you take longer than the average time. So you should aim for half the timer bar, the full bar is just to cap you at a 20% score if you get it correct.

It's not that harsh, my rating is consistently nearly 300 points above my online rating, 600 over my standard. You probably just haven't memorised very many patterns yet.

The time allowed is based on how long other successful users take, so it was enough for them. I sort of agree with this because I don't think anyone analyses every tactic to the end.

Gain points for retrying? There's no way I'd ever fail a problem if it's one I just attempted.

I believe it is unfair, in that I don't believe it should give partial credit for getting 2 of 3 steps. If you sac your queen correctly but fail to give mate you've just lost your queen and the game.

Something I noticed about tactics trainer...when I miss lots of problems consecutively, it starts giving me lower level problem......So when I miss a problem I lose 20+ points...but a fast correct answer only nets me 5-7 points.  One time it fixed itself, the other time I was stuck with 2000 level problems with a 2400 rating.  I reset my TT account and got back to 2400 in no time, but now I focus more on getting problems correct, than just scoring points, and it seems to keep giving me 2400 level problems, even when my rating falls some.  I would recommend turning off the timer and focusing on getting the problems correct and understanding them fully.  Plus resetting your TT will set your rating at 1200 again and give you a chance to get problems rated around your rating.

I think mine's the opposite, I'm normally ~1900, if I fall to 1800 I get 2000 problems which give me +20 if I get 100%, normally I don't get over +16. Not sure that always happens but does quite a bit.

What is this "full bar" and "timer running out" I keep hearing about?  Am I not looking in the right spot?  I just see a timer starting at 0:00 and going up.

It starts at 100% (double the average time) and counts to 0 seconds (20%)

I think its fair and I love it, one of the reasons I'm likely going to get a subscription soon when my trial runs out.

reblut,

I used to think a lot like you did.  I still think the TT is weighted too much toward speed vs. accuracy, but I've come to understand why there is such a focus on time.

In blitz mode, (as opposed to standard untimed mode, which isn't available here), the focus is on quickly recognizing patterns.  One thing TT has helped me with is being able to quickly sum up a position in my mind, such as material count, pawn structure, lines of attack, etc.  I used to take 20-30 seconds to do this, but TT has forced me to see these aspects much quicker, like 5-10 seconds.  Also, I sometimes analyze all lines, but many times (not most, but many) you simply see a promising line, recognize some forced replies, but can't carry out the analysis completely, so you just "go for it" with say 90% conviction.  OTB, of course you'd have time to analyze, but the point is to recognize patterns.  So eventually you'll see them faster.  For example, I've started to see "check-decoys" to decoy a king away from his queen when he's the queen's only defender, leaving another piece to take the queen.  I never saw this quickly before, but see it quicker now.  Sometimes I "see" a tactic, but don't feel time to analyze it completely, and there's a response that foils it.  So then I learn what things to look out for as possible replies later.

Having said that, I still think it's weighted a bit too heavily toward speed.

I would never use TT on portable device, too much opportunity for finger slips.

Since you can see the solution after a failed attempt, I don't see much use in giving credit for a second attempt, unless it appears randomly.

Ok but I should not loose points if I solve the problem before the time runs out, but that's what it does right now... Yesterday I lost 7 points!! when there was still 1 seconds left on the counter! I'm sorry but that's not fair...

As I said, the timer is double the average speed, why should you be able to take twice the average time and not lose points?

Just imagine the timer ending half way if that helps you.

I'm always on a portable device. I don't know if on the website it is the same thing but on the device, I can choose either to look the solution or retry. If i retry I don't see the solution.

Go to one of the sites that offer unlimited free tactics and then tell me these tactics are too fast.  Some are very complex and should require some accurate calculation to fully solve.  It is a great tool and is there to improve your tactical vision....not boost some rating that matters little other than the kinds of problems you are given in the future.  Just reset your TT and start over fresh with a 1200 rating.  Then maybe it will give you some problems around your rating so that you only win and lose around 14 points instead of such a big swing.

@reblut: It's the same for everyone! why not pay your subs then you can do more puzzles that way the odd occssion where yuo solve slowly the rating impact isnt as great.

Whoa, I already find that the timer is too short, imagine how I would felt if it would be half...

What I realize is that THIS tactics trainer is meant for higher than average players but for under average player it is impossible to gain points in the long run. I am doomed to nullity...

Yeah, I think what wbilfc is saying is that if you get a subscription, then you can do more problems, so your RD in Glicko goes down.

It's meant for everyone as the difficulty of puzzles adapts to how well you solve them.

I think just don't worry about your rating and see if you start to recognise patterns.

Not quite...what I'm saying is that if he can only do three puzzles per day the amount of time he takes to recover the lost rating points can be longer. However it's just a blip if you can do 30+ puzzles in a day.

Do you have a Glicko on TT? I wasn't aware of that.

Yep, but unlike me, he will never lose 200 points in a day!

reblut,

Hi, as I said, I understand where you're coming from.  I once went on a stretch of getting something like 43 out of 45 consecutive problems correct, but not gaining any points.  I was at 1250 or so.  Eventually I started to see them faster, and my rating rose.

It's not impossible to gain points.  You just have to practice.  My rating really started rising when I went to another site and starting doing like, 50-100 problems per DAY.  I would do groups of 20 or 30 or 50 at a time during spare moments.  Force myself to go faster.  Part of the "training" is getting exposed to over and over and over again to the same patterns.

So that would be my advice.  Either pay for sub, or go to another site (easy to find) with unlimited free tactics, and do about 100 a day.  You'll rating will improve then, I believe.

Lol Scott...I know that feeling!