touch move,illegal move

SirRook

ok I was playing an opponent in 2 minutes time control, we agreed that it is a touch move and any illegal move we make you lose the game, so here it is, my opponent picked up his queen and took my pawn on a white square and his queen was on a dark square, he moved the queen like a knight, after I told him that he made an illegal move and he made a comment that I am making my own chess rule, and also claimed that my flag has fallen but it's his clock running and it is still his move and he has pressed the clock. So, I told him he loses, because he made an illegal move on a touch move rule. Can anyone who understand the chess rules better than my opponent clarify this issue?

Ok, I did not have any time earlier to set up the position from OTB 2 minutes game, that is in discussions, so here it is and enjoy.

 

Thanks and good luck!

Dodger111

Blitz rules need careful study to understand their finer points.

Your flag had fallen?

You lost it doesn't matter what he did afterwards.

Silfir

The blitz rules I know are state if you touch a piece with the intent to move (touch-move), you must perform a legal move with that piece. If you made an illegal move with that piece, you can correct your mistake as long as you haven't pressed the clock. You have to use the piece to make a legal move, unless there no legal moves involving that piece, in which case you can make any legal move, as normal.

Shadowknight, I can't vouch for USCF, but that would absolutely not fly under FIDE rules, mainly because your opponent's illegal move is only actually complete if the clock is pressed - and in general, you're supposed to wait until your opponent has pressed your clock to make your move.

As for the OP, first of all, if your flag has fallen, it's lights out for you the moment your opponent points it out; it doesn't matter if it's your move or his. Second, the illegal move rule for Blitz as I understand it from FIDE rules, as I stated above, means your opponent was right. In my own blitz tournament play when I see that a move my opponent made is illegal, I always stay completely quiet until the very moment the clock is pressed.

SirRook

Good resposnses from all, but the point I am making is that he has not looked at the clock, only after I specifically said that he took pawn with a Queen like a knight while he is still holding the Queen and pawn on his playing hand, then announces my flag is down, and. argued he made a legal capture. You get checkmated and if your opponent does not claimed your flag is down you win by checkmate, cause checkmate superceed flag, but it is a draw if both players clocks are 000000000.

Silfir

If he argued he made a legal capture he is dumb because the queen can't move like a knight. But unless he pressed the clock, he hasn't completed his illegal move, and pointing out your flag has fallen means he wins.

Did he press his clock after executing the illegal move, yes or no?

SirRook

Yup FirebrandX he did hit the clock , so it will start mine, he drop the Queen to the wrong square and still having the pawn on his hand, after pressing the clock, and that's where it all begun, it's a 2 minutes game could you imagine playing for 4 hours and you are in a time scramble, and only a few seconds left, and  your opponents tells you, you lose after making illegal move, how many minutes does the TD removes from the culprit, a few seconds left, not a full minute, so who loses on time. Yes, my opponent press the clock, like what I said before, he wasn't even looking at the clock, only till after he pressed the clock and I claimed that he made an illegal move.  Believe me, if you play a player like that it will amaze you,lol.  He will look you into the eye and say he wins, and capturing pieces the wrong way, I have been observing it many times.  

SirRook

to Silfir, yup he did, or else he will not claim the flag, that's why my time ran out.

yngwie1
Shadowknight911 wrote:

I assume you're talking about OTB...most blitz rules are touch clock and not touch move, though some TDs use touch move.  What you should have done on the illegal move is immediately capture his king and then stop the clock indicating that the game is over. 

I suggest not to follow this advice. What you should have done is look for a ref and claim a win under illegal move rule, not to make a move yourself. If one makes a move, one cannot claim it anymore, and since capturing a king is illegal move itself, ironically one's opponent may claim a win under the very same rule.

yngwie1

Yeah, I know that people do that here and there, not only in US. Still it is against the rules. In a local tourney where people know each other and follow more their habbits in situations like that than actual rules, it might be pretty fine. I used to do that myself in games against friends and fellow clubmates, but never in a tourney game.

Now I do understand that USCF rules state :

 

The penalty for an illegal move is loss of game. For example, after a player moves into check or misses a check and fails to move out of check, the opponent may capture the king to win. Other illegal moves (e.g., castling through check, moving a knight along a diagonal, moving a pawn two squares after it had advanced on a previous move, etc.) are also penalized with loss of game. To claim the win in this case, the opponent stops the clock and asks for a TD before touching a piece to move.

but even in US, a tourney might be played under FIDE rules, where such a move has been forbidden for years now, and capturing a king would lead to a loss.

Abrenian

Is it against your best friend?  if yes, it's a draw hahahahahahaha

BorgQueen
SirRook wrote:

ok I was playing an opponent in 2 minutes time control, we agreed that it is a touch move and any illegal move we make you lose the game, so here it is, my opponent picked up his queen and took my pawn on a white square and his queen was on a dark square, he moved the queen like a knight, after I told him that he made an illegal move and he made a comment that I am making my own chess rule, and also claimed that my flag has fallen but it's his clock running and it is still his move and he has not press the clock yet? So, I told him he loses, because he made an illegal move on a touch move rule. Can anyone who understand the chess rules better than my opponent clarify this issue?

Thanks and good luck!

Your time was gone, it's his move, he has't pressed the clock.

You lose.

SirRook

to borgQueen 

so you will let someone take your king with  one move where your opponent 's Queen is on a1 and your King is on h7, then sees your flag has fallen and you can't claim that your opponent broke a touch move agreed upon and tell s you you lose because your flag has fallen, but when both flags fell then it a draw?

SirRook
Abrenian wrote:

Is it against your best friend?  if yes, it's a draw hahahahahahaha

then you know who lol, he's clock is running to zero but he made that illegal pawn take witha queen, aren't you going to question that lol

hentener

sirrook you only go by rules if it will help you win as i think  im the player your talking about.lets see 16 wins  you 15 wins an a few draws jog a selective mind.

BorgQueen

@ SirRook, the illegal move hadn't been completed -- he had not yet pressed his clock.

Taking the king is, in itself, an illegal move, but if your clock is zero and you don't have mate on the board, you're done.

If he had completed the illegal move by pressing the clock, then there's a case to call the arbitor to judge the situation.

hentener

let see because a new club member says flag an gets chewed out even if i do not claim flag a make a few moves to allow my flag fall tp make it a draw in attempt to spare new guy a embarsing tounge lashing as he received anyway because  although i was willing to take a draw not a loss as you claim as club director a win as there was a club rules violation.You are a very very good player most days better than me an i do consider you a friend but because i am your friend i need to point out you need to work at sportsmenship.An i also think no club director should ever rule an have the final say in his on game.Keep imn mind you started this but when isee you post this i must defend myself.

hentener

thats it he is the club arbitor.however you  should not be able to be the judge  on your on games as in 20 years you never rule againt yourself.

hentener

borg queen your a sharp guy you cath sir rook in his on staement i had not pressed the clock an we were both in a time trouble an i have to take his word i made a illeagle move this comes from someone who would not give me a draw when i claimed 3fold same move order even if the two people wathing the game confirmed my claim he rules against me gives   himself the win.Look believe or not i like but he has a hard time accepting a loss an beleive me hes very hard to beat at speed chess as i witnessed him zip out low 2200 to 2250 type masters a leave them mubbling to themselfs.It was the first time in almost two years i come out on top yes only by one game an he has a hard time dealing with the fact i was best that day.back in 1990 we play a 100 games he wins a100 now on a average day  i score 25 to 33% an every now an then i come out on top.

Estragon

Typically you cannot claim a draw by threefold repetition in a blitz or 2-minute (we used to call it "riptide") game.  The claim requires a scoresheet.

If you make an illegal move but call the opponent's flag before hitting your clock, it is a win on time.  Of this there is no doubt or controversy.

If you make an illegal move and hit your clock, you lose if the opponent has not flagged; again, this isn't a question.

The only questionable case might be if you make the illegal move and hit your clock and the opponent has flagged.  It might then be called a draw if his flag fell before you hit the clock.  But if his flag is standing when you hit the clock after an illegal move, the illegal move loses before it can fall.

Silfir
Estragon wrote:

Typically you cannot claim a draw by threefold repetition in a blitz or 2-minute (we used to call it "riptide") game.  The claim requires a scoresheet.

The FIDE rules do not give an indication that this rule (9.2) is somehow not in effect in Blitz conditions. There might be problems proving the claim, that's all. But if the arbiter has been observing the game closely enough to know the claim is correct, he would rule the game a draw no problem.

I can say that from the somewhat hard to decipher drama that's just occured, the actual rules of chess, FIDE or USCF, don't seem to be the primary concern. Can you pass me the popcorn?