Typically you cannot claim a draw by threefold repetition in a blitz or 2-minute (we used to call it "riptide") game. The claim requires a scoresheet.
If you make an illegal move but call the opponent's flag before hitting your clock, it is a win on time. Of this there is no doubt or controversy.
If you make an illegal move and hit your clock, you lose if the opponent has not flagged; again, this isn't a question.
The only questionable case might be if you make the illegal move and hit your clock and the opponent has flagged. It might then be called a draw if his flag fell before you hit the clock. But if his flag is standing when you hit the clock after an illegal move, the illegal move loses before it can fall.
The FIDE rules do not give an indication that this rule (9.2) is somehow not in effect in Blitz conditions. There might be problems proving the claim, that's all. But if the arbiter has been observing the game closely enough to know the claim is correct, he would rule the game a draw no problem.
I can say that from the somewhat hard to decipher drama that's just occured, the actual rules of chess, FIDE or USCF, don't seem to be the primary concern. Can you pass me the popcorn?
@ SirRook, the illegal move hadn't been completed -- he had not yet pressed his clock.
Taking the king is, in itself, an illegal move, but if your clock is zero and you don't have mate on the board, you're done.
If he had completed the illegal move by pressing the clock, then there's a case to call the arbitor to judge the situation.
@BorgQueen, you have not played this opponent, so you won't be able to tell,even if he pressed his clock or not and you told him he made an illegal move he will deny it, and then when he realized that you are CORRECT then he'll say I will give you a draw, so where do you win? You are the one who claimed the win and he will say it's a draw? If ever he makes a comment here I will tell you who it is, LOL. I am glad I pointed that out because, it so happen that if you play blitz with that opponent, don't matter what time control, you have 1 sec (make a note one second), you pressed your clock for his to start after you made you move then pressed his clock to run, and you called his flag, simultanously he makes his move after you called his flag, of course your one sec will go 'cause he still press your clock to zero,calls it a draw, and will argue with that you don't have a sec (reason he pressed your clock, right and you already called flag) same thing witht this topic denial of facts. And if you don't call flag he will still play even if both of your flags are down, when he see your about to give him checkmate, then he will call draw.
And remember you can not call your own flag, even if it went down 100 centuries ago!
I hope I posted that properly?
@BorgQueen, you have not played this opponent, so you won't be able to tell,even if he pressed his clock or not and you told him he made an illegal move he will deny it
It's only an illegal move if he pressed the clock.
I delude myself I have a pretty good grasp of English but your posts make me despair for my sanity. If this is truly English, I shall never master it.
I am just using the rules that apply in tournaments I play in. Since the validity of the illegal move is in question, and by your admission, you were out of time and it was his move, he had'nt pressed the clock, then nothing else matters, the rules say you lose.
@hentener scoring is not the issue here, it's about touch move, and illegal moves that players agreed to, not score, but if you put it that way i'll give you an example, for every one on this topic to see.
Playing some one 2 minutes at 4 games per set equals 1 win if you score ahead, without a gie breaker, meaning 2 wins and 2 loses equals half point in a match set. If we play 9 sets I beat you 28 wins to your 6 loses and 2 draws, that means I won at least 7 sets to your 2. I am just ahead in points. If you wants everyone can visit our chess club notes here under Biloxi Chess Club 1990 and I am Cecil on that where I play my opponents in any time control. So, 16-15 is not a set. and please post how many sets you won and your opponent?
Discussion here is touch move, illegal moves not how many wins or loses, wrong issue.
Thanks for you post though.
You leave out the part where you hold your hand over the clock keeping me from pressing the clock you claim i made a illegal move i point out your flag is down an claim time win so you sir rook kept me from pressing the clock.Now as noone else was observing the game i have to take your word i made an illegal move keep in mind you done this before to avoid a lost game an you being club champ an arbitor i think its not right for the judge to be in a position to rule on his on games esp when over the last 22 years i can not think of a incident where you rule against yourself.I bring up case of 3 fold as the position was in fact repeated 4 or 5 times however by doing this you ran my clock out.Now as for the sets they were of4 games each you won two sets i won two sets the rest being 2-2 however if i had the win on time i win another set.Now your the the one whowants to do sets i always say thats for tennis not chess.Anyone else would say 16 -15 is a victory an it should have been 17-14 if not for your so called illegal move claim when i claim win on time an you prevent me from pressing clock i had 8 sec left you only move your hand when my clock at zero. I would havelet you off with a draw but NOOOO you claim win a record it as win.
Not to worry, it makes those who were born into the English language also dispair for their sanity. I suspect it is a child that hasn't finished school yet. I always hope such is the case.
sirrook you only go by rules if it will help you win as i think im the player your talking about.lets see 16 wins you 15 wins an a few draws jog a selective mind.
Hello Hentener, is that comment about touch move or illegal move topic? Or is it personal? Please post a question or answer about touch moves and illegal moves not some I win or I lost stuff?
Also, if spectators are allowed by you or any other players, to make comments while a game is going on about flags falling and moves being made, we might as well set up a chess board beside the people who are playing, then discuss the game while it is going on either in a true tournament or skittles games, if that's the way you percieve thing in a chess club? Also, I don't think people chew on people when they made a comment, most people will say please no comments at on any games.
Also, question just answer yes or no, when you are watching any chess games do you make comments or say things around people who are playing? YES or NO. that means are you quiet or not? And be honest?
And go back to the discussion about touch move and illegal moves like everyone else, Please!
SirRook, your post is completely off topic.
Oh and by the way, nice complete turnaround on what the topic is.
Reading post one again, now with the contentious game in question over the incident, this topic is CLEARLY about that one particular game, not a discussion on bloody touch move / illegal move like you now claim.
Seems that now you have lost the debate over what the rules say, you need to "force" people to abandon that and talk about touch move, yet you don't.
to Borgqueen now this topic has concluded, you are right someone made this topic off track
Thanks to all for making comments on touch move and illegal moves.
I made my point!
Tis all good mate :-)