True or False Chess is a Draw with Best Play from Both Sides

This is true of course.

i will add something...For most games played--one side or the other has a winning position by the 13th move.

It's a win for black with perfect play from both, but it would be a win for white if black starts. Zugzwang city.

do you really believe this or are you making a little joke?

No I believe it's drawn. But I hope white is in zugzwang from the start, it would amuse me.

 

I scanned a bit of the thread. I disagree with you on one point I noticed... I think computers will one day solve chess. The numbers might be mind boggling to us now, but there was a time a million was a mind boggling number because noone can actually count to it. Computers will destroy the game we love, I hope I'm not alive to see it happen.

However, there is one thing stronger than the best chess computers!

 Which is? And is this one thing stronger than future computers?

I would like to offer a new point you might have not considered. What if black wins with perfect play, but he is harder to play as? Because solving chess is impossible with current technology, the computer might rate the position as worse for black, when in fact, black can always force a win. White ruins his position with the first move. We know that there is a certain depth search range in which engines play the best chess. These engines cannot find “perfect” moves in the endgame where these moves often don’t make sense to us or the engine, but the tablebase doesn’t lie. I believe black wins. And I honestly hope we solve it one day and that is the case because that would be awesome to prove all the haters wrong. Also, if black wins, chess interest is revived because everyone knows black is harder to play which makes his starting difficulty (vs disadvantage) worth it. He’s not just at a disadvantage the whole game because he can actually force a win from the beginning.

What does it tell me about my game if I have VERY few draws? I have no reasonable chance to "play for" a draw. I play to win (and win or lose) or if I play not to lose, will lose.

no there is something stronger than the best chess engines today!

Who are "the haters" you refer to?

That may not be likely but it's certainly possible. It wouldn't change my perception at all because it just means that something was proven that everyone already knew to begin with, that chess is a draw or forced win for one side with perfect moves. It has to be one of the two, we just dont know which it is yet. In your example, choosing to play d4 could be used as a sort of a handicap. Instead of giving up a pawn, the agreement could be to play d4 as the first move.

I will answer...A strong human player guiding a very strong chess engine is stronger than a very strong chess engine. [this has been proven]

This may well be true, but I doubt very much it will forever remain the case.

NO - it comes down to luck if two players of equal players play - after luck - I believe that pawn advance will determine that who wins - and or the the players pieces in the middle of hte board will decide who wins - like everyone knows pieces in the middle of the board control the most squares - however - the pawn advance determines who gets to have surviving pieces in the middle of the board

There is no luck in chess.

There is plenty of luck (variance) in chess.   There is still some incomplete information (i.e. what opening variation(s) is your opponent proficient in?) and your opponent is always susceptible to over or under perform, aka variance.  

Variance isn't luck, variance is probability. If your opponent makes more damaging mistakes than you do, it's because you played better, not because you got lucky. I you win because your opponent was tired, you won because you managed your fatigue better than he did, not because you got lucky. Even timeouts aren't lucky... you're either managing your time better than your opponent, or something more important than a game of chess happened.

 

Chess is pure individual skill.

Well, there are so many different permutations in chess, the possibilities are endless. 

First of all, what you are implying by what you say, is that in any 1 position, there is a BEST move.

That one move is better than all of the others for a particular reason...

Now,

if this is true, then there must exist a perfect game, where every move is a best move. 

If we knew what that game was, then we would know the answer, but since we don`t, we are in the dark. 

Personally, I would be inclined to agree that it is a draw if played correctly.

I am guessing the perfect game starts like this:

 

Nah, I'll play 3...Nf6

There is definitely luck in chess. Just as there is luck in anything. It can be called variance or probability or chance, or anything else. It's still a random, unplanned, or unpredictable thing that can change the outcome. Winning the lottery is a probability, a million to one or something like that. But it's also luck. I've played a game of chess where I literally had no idea where to move. My opponent played better and having no plan and no idea what to do I just moved a piece for absolutely no reason. I had to move or I would eventually run out of time so I just moved something. I think doing something with no plan, no purpose, and no reason that results in a good (or bad) result is luck.