True or False Chess is a Draw with Best Play from Both Sides

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TheOldReb
The_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

How did you do ?

I had my best result ever against such strong players , 3-3 ! I lost to the GM and FM  while winning 2 and drawing 2 against the IMs !  

The_Ghostess_Lola

Congratulations !

ponz111

"perfect play" just means that you play with no errors which would change the outcome of the game. It does not mean making "the very best moves"

TheOldReb
The_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

Congratulations !

Thanks !  

macer75
ponz111 wrote:

"perfect play" just means that you play with no errors which would change the outcome of the game. It does not mean making "the very best moves"

Some people would define it differently.

bobbyDK

Yes I define perfect play as the best move possible and only tablebase with up to 7 pieces play perfect chess.

if you do not play the best moves possible you have the potential that someone finds a better move.

ChiseledChessy

I'd assume with perfect play on both sides its a draw. I wonder what that game would look like. Is there only one variation of perfect?

bobbyDK
ChiseledChessy skrev:

I'd assume with perfect play on both sides its a draw. I wonder what that game would look like. Is there only one variation of perfect?

noone knows.

leiph18
bobbyDK wrote:
ChiseledChessy skrev:

I'd assume with perfect play on both sides its a draw. I wonder what that game would look like. Is there only one variation of perfect?

noone knows.

Look at a tablebase some time.

E.g. 3 moves win, 8 moves draw, 2 moves lose.

It's obvious there will be more than 1 "best" line, it's just not absolutely proven. Just like chess is a draw with best play is obvious but not absolutely proven.

It's about on par with the sun will rise tomorrow, but it's not proven.

Ziryab

It's proven that the sun rises only in perception. In actuality, the earth turns towards it.

leiph18

I'm sticking to my geocentric model, as God intended, thank you.

bobbyDK
leiph18 skrev:
bobbyDK wrote:
ChiseledChessy skrev:

I'd assume with perfect play on both sides its a draw. I wonder what that game would look like. Is there only one variation of perfect?

noone knows.

Look at a tablebase some time.

E.g. 3 moves win, 8 moves draw, 2 moves lose.

It's obvious there will be more than 1 "best" line, it's just not absolutely proven. Just like chess is a draw with best play is obvious but not absolutely proven.

It's about on par with the sun will rise tomorrow, but it's not proven.

I guess if 3 moves win the one with the fewest moves is the perfect.

leiph18

That gets a little subjective.

Why couldn't we say the longest line is perfect? Or the one that ends the game on an even number, or oh, a prime number :D

SmyslovFan

Leiph, because in chess, efficiency is a virtue.

In terms of whether chess is a draw, I believe it is, based on all current evidence. All it would take is a single forcing line from beginning to end, no matter how long that line is, to change my mind. 

Then again, all it would take is a single giant sea creature to be captured alive in Loch Ness for me to believe in Nessie.

leiph18

In imperfect chess efficiency is a virtue.

In solved chess it's meaningless.

ponz111

Billions of games have been played and not even one single forcing line where one side wins from the start has ever been played or discovered.

I suppose this could happen? Maybe one chance in an octillion?

TheGrobe

All you've said there as that chess has not yet been solved.  Yes, we all know this.

ponz111

Chess has not been solved in the sense of a 32 piece data base and never will be solved this way.

However the very best players know it is a draw when neither side makes a mistake. 

TheGrobe
ponz111 wrote:

Chess has not been solved in the sense of ...

Yeah, I'll stop you right there -- there's only one "sense" of solved, and it's not what the very best players "know".

leiph18
ponz111 wrote:

The best players make the very reasonable assumption that chess is a draw when neither side makes a mistake. 

FTFY