True or false? Chess will never be solved! why?

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fburton

Academic, definitely - but also interesting and fun (for at least some) to debate.

Irontiger
Pelikan_Player wrote:

@irontiger I could say the wild troll comment seems like a case of projection as nearly every uninformed criticism toward strangers falls into that category, but it's too easy. You're pitching beach balls.

Well, if you seriously believe that the Scandinavian is busted because you claim it so, you belong to this thread : http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings (see norelyer's posts). As hard as I hate the Scandinavian, I am forced to recognize it's not busted yet.

timbeau

1- The question is nonsense. 
2 - nyose 

F0T0T0

true.

no one will try because that would take all the fun away from chess.

and it's too hard.

dinkir9
Ziryab wrote:
TheChessJudge wrote:

Chess will be Solved!...Just as Every other Symmetrical Board Game has been!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game#Solved_games

Go must be asymmetrical. Not only are computers even farther from solving it than chess, they still cannot beat a reasonably skilled player.

Go is organic, it's a game that computers can't understand. Chess is mechanical, it's a game that computers can understand. In go you make your own game, in chess you play from a starting position.

dinkir9
87654321 wrote:

If chess was solved and all moves became known theory, what would this mean for otb. Probably not much, so its an academic question.

>:)

Yep, even if chess were solved, No one could possibly remember all the responses. They could remember specific lines, but as soon as the other deviates, they would be at a total loss. 

ponz111

Checkers was solved. However chess is far more complex and it is my understanding that it will never be solved as developing a 32 piece table base will always be way beyond our abilities. 

If you ask the top players, almost 100% will tell chess is a draw when played without errors. However while this is a very good indication it does not actually "solve" chess.

KenyDurant
ponz111 wrote:

Checkers was solved. However chess is far more complex and it is my understanding that it will never be solved as developing a 32 piece table base will always be way beyond our abilities. 

If you ask the top players, almost 100% will tell chess is a draw when played without errors. However while this is a very good indication it does not actually "solve" chess.

I just have to know...

 

How many top players have you actually asked?

ponz111

KennyDurant  You state "How many top players have you actually asked?"

You do not have to take a poll to know something. There are ways to gain knowledge without taking a poll.

However if you disbelieve that almost all top players believe chess is a draw that is fine.

Oscar_the_Cat

I'm not smart enough to have a definitive answer.  I think a large part of the equation if it can be solved is our advancement in quantum computing.  

jaaas

@Ponz111:

I find it hilarious how after you successfully insisted on having your own thread locked, you keep pushing your "chess is a draw" gospel in other (even if somewhat related) threads. I thought that by pulling the plug on that thread (and thereby barring the discussion from being continued) you intended to put the case to rest.

ponz111

jaaas  I pulled the plug because too many people were getting upset and that is the only reason I pulled the plug.

As I said chess is not solved but almost all grandmasters believe it is a draw.

TurboFish
I've been wondering for years now: how many qubits would a quantum computer need to play a strong game of chess? I realize that we have only a few qubits in functioning prototypes, so a chess-playing quantum computer (stronger than Stanley the random move generator) is probably decades away. BTW, even if we had a quantum computer that played perfect chess, we would not be able to know for certain that it played perfectly, would we? And a machine that plays perfect chess would not discourage humans from playing chess any more than the invention of the internal combustion engine discouraged foot races.
fburton
ponz111 wrote:

jaaas  I pulled the plug because too many people were getting upset and that is the only reason I pulled the plug.

I only counted one. Were there more??

ponz111

fburton  You might not have seen the attacks on me by several such as I have not attended college [ I have college degree] and how stupid I am and how a grade school child could easily outlogic me etc. 

Or the deliberate misquotes.   

Ot calling me silly and  not understanding and the attacks on the few who agreed with me.

Or sending me an insulting message without the provision to respond.

However, having said all that if a few want the thread reopened I will be glad to ask for it to be reopened.

ponz111

I just put in a request to have the topic unlocked. However it is 430 AM here so it might be a few hours if it is unlocked.

fburton

Thanks, ponz111 - that would be good imo. I was enjoying the debates which I thought weren't getting too heated or rude.

The person who I thought was most obviously upset wasn't yourself. This person didn't contribute very much except to say that the thread should be closed! Not that I contributed much either, but I was happy to read and think about what others had written.

KenyDurant
ponz111 wrote:

KennyDurant  You state "How many top players have you actually asked?"

You do not have to take a poll to know something. There are ways to gain knowledge without taking a poll.

However if you disbelieve that almost all top players believe chess is a draw that is fine.

I'm not asking if you held a poll, I want to know how many top players you've actually asked that agreed chess is a draw. lol

zborg

Change that avatar @KenyD.  Your age is showing.  The laughs on you, unfortunately.

Ziryab
holy_hamster wrote:
92ebc660b65e wrote:

Chess will be solved with 32 tablebase one day... ^.^

You need to store around 10^50 bytes and make around 10^50 calculations. Currently even if we invested huge amounts of money and time in this project we could only get somewhere around 10^20. So perhaps one day, but not soon.

10^20 strikes me as quite a lot. I suppose that figure relies on the technology of encoding data in DNA, a process that greatly expands our storage capabilities but that does not make the data readily and frequently available.