True or false? Chess will never be solved! why?

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Doggy_Style
SaxonViolence wrote:

In Theory, Chess has a Finite number of Games and each and every one could be worked through to its inevitable conclusion.

{Assuming that both players legitimately try to Win and don't go through endless permutations simply to boost the number of possible games...}

However, even if you built a Computer that was as big as the Universe itself and set it to exhaustively play every possible game...

It wouldn't solve Chess within the lifetime of the universe itself.

I submit that is Insolveable...

For all Practical Purposes.

 

Saxon Violence

Ground-breaking stuff, pat yourself on the back.

SaxonViolence

Well, I find the topic interesting--but not fascinating enough to read through 57 pages of text.

I didn't think most others joining this subject in the middle will either.

If I reiterated something already said...

You have my Apology...

 

Saxon Violence

XSteve1980
[COMMENT DELETED]
ponz111

Kasparov is correct that the game of chess will never be "solved".  But he and almost all GMs and Super GMs are also correct that the game of chess is a draw when both sides make no errors.

I will also add that many such games have already been played.

Chef-KOdAwAri
M-W-R wrote:
Moses2792796 wrote:

I heard a while ago that it is physically impossible for chess to be solved because there is not enough room in the universe to store that amount of data (ie. because there are more possibilities than the number of atoms in the universe), I was somewhat skeptical of this idea but I would like to hear other's opinions on it. 

Having said that I would not be at all surpised if many of the major variations are completely solved within 50 years.


Yeah, according to the Law of Conservation of matter, there are a finite amount of atoms, but amount of chess moves and position...endless.

Your both only considering 4 dimesions in that answer. There are at least 7 more dimesions beyond 4th's 'Time' and an infinite amount of universes.. we just dont have the means to access them....at this point.. in time.

Chef-KOdAwAri
Lenudan wrote:
M-W-R wrote:
Moses2792796 wrote:

I heard a while ago that it is physically impossible for chess to be solved because there is not enough room in the universe to store that amount of data (ie. because there are more possibilities than the number of atoms in the universe), I was somewhat skeptical of this idea but I would like to hear other's opinions on it. 

Having said that I would not be at all surpised if many of the major variations are completely solved within 50 years.


Yeah, according to the Law of Conservation of matter, there are a finite amount of atoms, but amount of chess moves and position...endless.

Your both only considering 4 dimesions in that answer. There are at least 7 more dimesions beyond 4th's 'Time' and an infinite amount of universes.. we just dont have the means to access them....at this point.. in time.

to understand my comment, here's a great TED talk that touches on M, String theory and the multiverse..

http://blog.ted.com/2013/07/18/envision-the-world-in-11-dimensions-a-ted-ed-lesson-to-blow-your-3d-mind/

watcha

Kasparov is incorrect that the game of chess will never be solved.

It will either be solved or not. It is possible to solve it therefore it is impossible to know for certain that it will not be solved.

ps.

The number of legal positions of chess is less than the number of water molecules in Earth's oceans. This is a huge number, but not one of cosmic proportions.

Iluvsmetuna

I think a young girl could solve chess easily. The guys are too bogged down with existing knowledge.

watcha
Erik-the-Viking wrote:

The guys are too bogged down with existing knowledge.

Some of them are bogged down by the lack of knowledge.

Iluvsmetuna

Creativity is what's needed, innocence of mind, sudden outbursts of incomprehensibility. They may be the only hope, the girls.

watcha

Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace, now commonly known as Ada Lovelace, first programmer in the world, please raise from the dead and help us solve chess!

Iluvsmetuna

Wow! She looks smart!

watcha

Not to speak of the machine which she helped come true:

 

Wiki: Babbage Machine

( http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Babbage_machine )

 

The Babbage Machine is a machine that grows babbages and uses them to perform calculations and execute computer programs. Babbages are a type of vegetable that is like a cabbage with a baby's face on it.

a babbage:

Babbages are known for being mind-bendingly cute, and babbling incoherently. A Babbage Machine works by growing babbages and then keeping a pool of babbages. Then, a program is fed to the babbages on punched cards. The babbages eat the punched cards and begin to babble. When one stands next to the Babbage Machine with one's head tilted at the correct angle, the sound of the babbling babbages coalesces to form the sound of the result of the computation, in the voice of James Earl Jones.

watcha

If anyone is telling you that a Babbage Machine looks like this, don't believe them, they try to make a fool of you:

awesomechess1729
watcha wrote:

Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace, now commonly known as Ada Lovelace, first programmer in the world, please raise from the dead and help us solve chess!

 

Ada Lovelace was also the daughter of Lord Byron, and he could come back from the dead and help us solve the mysteries of life.

Iluvsmetuna

Legend has it that if you feed grasshoppers to Babbages, they become the ultimate learning machine, mastering all philosophies and even inventing new ones. The average cabbage does not evolve by chewing greenfly.

TurboFish

One could argue that the biological growth of a cabbage plant is equivalent to a computation (execution of DNA code).

Furthermore, researchers report evidence that quantum effects help the process of biological photosynthesis to find near-optimal paths for conversion of photon energy into chemical energy.

Thus we might reasonably classify a live cabbage as a quantum computer.  Cabbage Machines and Babbage Machines are just different varieties of computers. But can a Cabbage Machine ever be a universal computer?

zborg
ponz111 wrote:

Kasparov is correct that the game of chess will never be "solved".  But he and almost all GMs and Super GMs are also correct that the game of chess is a draw when both sides make no errors.

I will also add that many such games have already been played.

If only the hoi polloi would listen.  But they're too busy having fun in this thread.

Thanks again, in any case.  Smile

watcha
TurboFish wrote:

Furthermore, researchers report evidence that quantum effects help the process of biological photosynthesis to find near-optimal paths for conversion of photon energy into chemical energy.

I have a blog post about the limits of quantum computation in solving chess. After writing the post came to my attention some new results of quantum effects in microtubules that can be found in the brain.

I added this update to my post:

" Since I have written this post some dramatic new results of large scale quantum coherence exhibited by living organisms came to my attention. It has been demonstrated that microtubules in the brain when excited at certain frequencies show signs of superconductivity ( which is large scale quantum behaviour ). This discovery may turn our knowledge about quantum computing upside down. It seems that what scientists are trying to do at near zero kelvin temperatures with a few quantum bits nature has long since managed to do with billions of bits at room temperature. This is not an isolated case of the brain: it turns out that also in photosynthesis quantum behaviour plays a part. It has been long known that organisms having only one cell and no neurons or nerves can behave very intelligently ( can swin, can find food, avoid obstacles, even have short term memory ). The new discoveries on microtubules can now explain this kind of intelligent information processing as well. If the brain is more than just a network of neurons and can process infromation at quantum level then the number of elementary operations it can perform can be much more than previously expected, on the order of 10^27 operations per second. This means that 1 million human brains in 1 year are capable of performing operations on the order of the number of legal chess positions.

 

These new discoveries open the way for a new approach toward understanding consciousness as well. They lend experimental credibility to a theory of consciousness that has been around for 20 years now: the Orch-OR ( orchestrated objective reduction ) hypothesis of anaesthesiologist Stuart Hameroff and emeritus professor of mathematics Roger Penrose. It is important to note that Penrose goes further than orthodox quantum mechanics would allow: he assumes that the underlying physics is uncomputable therefore the brain can have qualia ( conscious experience ) and access truths that are not available to the conventional ( Turing ) method of computation ( all classical computers we have today are Turing machines ). However whether Penrose is right or not on this issue does not make any difference for the practical speed of computation: even if the orthodox view that quantum computers in principle can't do anything more than a Turing machine with at most exponential slowdown could do, the sheer speedup offered by room temperature large scale quantum behaviour can be a game changer in computing."

zborg

Indeed, this thread clearly has the problem bass-ackwards.

Quantum mechanics notwithstanding.

Still, Roger Penrose had it right in The Emperor's New Mind (1989).