True or false? Chess will never be solved! why?

Sort:
Ziryab
TheChessJudge wrote:

Chess will be Solved!...Just as Every other Symmetrical Board Game has been!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game#Solved_games

Go must be asymmetrical. Not only are computers even farther from solving it than chess, they still cannot beat a reasonably skilled player.

Ziryab
TheChessJudge wrote:

I can Assure you I know the Complexity of All Board Games!...

Chess is Nothing more than a larger Version of Noughts & Crosses / Tic-Tac-Toe

A-B-C-D-E-F-G...Ect. Branches!...leading to the Last Position!

Your knowledge of Latin is on par with the understanding of chess that you communicate here.


et cetera 

TheGrobe

The game tree complexity of Go is 10^360.

Ziryab
TheGrobe wrote:

The game tree complexity of Go is 10^360.

Clearly solvable (in my lifetime [barring cancer or an automobile wreck, or murder at the hands of an aggrieved spouse because of too much online chess]) Laughing

Irontiger
TheChessJudge wrote:

Not Manageable with todays technology!...but as I said the Future is a long...long...time!

In a long, long time, humanity will be extinct. Or at least have forgotten how to play chess.

A famous quote from Keynes goes "in the long term, we are all dead". It has been wrongly interpretated as "we don't care about future" but the real meaning is that any prediction (in economics in his case, but it applies everywhere) supposed to describe what happens after a long time elapsed and says nothing about short and medium term is basically worthless - if you can't figure out what will happen in 10 years, there is a good chance that your predictions for 1000 years are wrong.

plexinico
Casual_Joe wrote:
Moses2792796 wrote:
Casual_Joe wrote:

They said that a computer would never be small enough to fit into a single room.  Now we have 100000 times the computing power on our smart phone as they had in the original supercomputers.  Chess will certainly be solved, it's just a question of when.  And the argument about the number of atoms in the universe doesn't hold -- quantum computers are based on subatomic particles, and there are plenty of those to go around!

This is what I thought, although it still seems somewhat implausible that we could develop technology that could store that amount of data.

Electricity, internal combustion engines, and modern medicine all seemed implausible to the ancient romans as well!  I'm not saying it'll be solved soon, but eventually, unless the Second Coming occurs first!

I agree!
If the effort is put into it, then YES it can be done! 

I think the effort is huge and in practical terms it is pointless to do so.  So I don't know if it will get solved, but I am a believer that it is possible!

Irontiger
plexinico wrote:
Casual_Joe wrote:

Electricity, internal combustion engines, and modern medicine all seemed implausible to the ancient romans as well!  I'm not saying it'll be solved soon, but eventually, unless the Second Coming occurs first!

I agree!
If the effort is put into it, then YES it can be done! 

I think the effort is huge and in practical terms it is pointless to do so.  So I don't know if it will get solved, but I am a believer that it is possible!

Perpetual motion machine seems impossible now too. Does it mean that by trying very very hard it would be possible eventually ?

Physical laws are even more stubborn that forum trolls like myself, you know.

chasm1995
Irontiger wrote:
plexinico wrote:
Casual_Joe wrote:

Electricity, internal combustion engines, and modern medicine all seemed implausible to the ancient romans as well!  I'm not saying it'll be solved soon, but eventually, unless the Second Coming occurs first!

I agree!
If the effort is put into it, then YES it can be done! 

I think the effort is huge and in practical terms it is pointless to do so.  So I don't know if it will get solved, but I am a believer that it is possible!

Perpetual motion machine seems impossible now too. Does it mean that by trying very very hard it would be possible eventually ?

Physical laws are even more stubborn that forum trolls like myself, you know.

There was an MIT student that used magnetism to create what appears to be a true perpetual motion machine.  I can't remember where I read it, but if I find it I can show it to you guys.

Mandy711

As endgame table bases are being generated and opening theories are sorting out unsound openings and variation, there will be a time the 2 researches will meet at the middle (game). That solves chess. It's possible within 10, 20, 30 years. But that won't stop chess lovers from playing the game. Professional chess however might be in danger.

chasm1995

why will it be solved at the midgame?

Mandy711

It is highly improbable chess would be solved from a few moves after the opening as there are zillions of positions possible. Too much data even for a super computer to process. In the middle game, the positions possible are pruned to a manageable amount although that is still gigantic. The solution to chess might be in the form of middle game tablebase or encyclopedia of middle games.

MrKornKid

Can someone explain what "solving" chess is.  Is it finding the quickest checkmate from each and every opening?  And for both colors?

ponz111

The wording "solved" is ambigous.  If it means do we know the outcome of chess with perfect play for both sides--then it is  "solved" as we know it is a draw.

If it means can we give ALL the variations to show  the game is a draw as they have  in checkers--then in that sense of "solved" it will not be solved because our sun will explode before that happens.

On the other hand some spaceships could leave earth before the sun explodes if there are still humans or semi humans and the search for that kind of "solve" might continue for billions of earth years [even though the earth would be gone]

chasm1995

It hasn't been proved yet to be a draw; it is only thought to be a draw.

ponz111

It has not been proved to be a draw in that we do not have volumes of chess moves larger than the solar system.

But any good player knows it is a draw.  The evidence is overwhelming 

chasm1995

why don't we see if we can get a master to comment here to see if they think it is a draw or not?

ponz111

any master knows it is a draw.  With one exception out of hundreds.

waffllemaster
chasm1995 wrote:

why don't we see if we can get a master to comment here to see if they think it is a draw or not?

As Ponz said, chess is thought to be a draw with best play and this has been the opinion of the overwhelming majority for over 100 years.

“In fact it is now conceded by all experts that by proper play on both sides the legitimate issue of a game ought to be a draw, and that the right of making the first move might secure that issue, but is not worth the value of a Pawn.”  -- Steinitz (Theory of Perfect Play 1896)

DiogenesDue

Why would you quote Steinitz, who had no idea of the coming of computers? ;)

Chess will be "busted" by computers within the next 100 years, and surely no grandmaster would be willing to put their own money on being able to win a match against the best readily available chess programs/apps even, say, 20 years from now.

The only questions are:

1) Will White win every time with perfect play, or will Black draw?

2) Will Chess players continue to care about Chess once the answer is known (and any chess program around is better than the best human player, as will be the case by that time), or will the game fall into obscurity?

Heck, depending on advances in biotech, the game may die when your smartphone is plugged into a chip in your neck that interfaces directly with your brain, because then Houdini will be in everyone's head, not just Ivanov's ;)...

waffllemaster
btickler wrote:

Why would you quote Steinitz, who had no idea of the coming of computers? ;)

Chess will be "busted" by computers within the next 100 years, and surely no grandmaster would be willing to put their own money on being able to win a match against the best chess programs/apps even, say, 20 years from now.

The only questions are:

1) Will White win every time with perfect play, or will Black draw?

2) Will Chess players continue to care about Chess once the answer is known (and any chess program around is better than the best human player, as will be the case by that time), or will the game fall into obscurity?

After the advent of computers, the idea that best play is a draw has only been strengthened.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by chess will be "busted."  A complete solution poses many practical problems which we are as unlikely to  overcome in the next 100 years as near speed light travel and colonizing other planets.