Trying to force a draw

Sort:
vantangler

Like the subject says.  Whenever I am losing I cannot for the life of me force a draw!  It's getting borderline ridiculous, and makes me wonder if everyone with a good rating is using an engine to assist. 

Here is an annotated example:


 I know drawing is easy when your outclassed, but i am just having a hard time figuring out the 100% solution to drawing every time I am losing a game.  Am I doing something wrong?!? or is there more nefarious work afoot?

Lagomorph

"Realize I am at disadvantage..so I begin sacking pieces in order to force draw"

Throwing away pieces will just mean you get mated quicker.

You should have played :

8. Qxe7

13. Nxd5

 

either would have won the game for you.

uri65
vantangler wrote:

 I know drawing is easy when your outclassed

Where from do you know this??? It’s completely wrong. There is no guaranteed way to force a draw with exception of some theoretical endgames and even those often require very good knowledge and technical skills.

vantangler

@uri.   Winning is certainly more difficult that not winning, (where losing is a certainty if one tries to do so)  so drawing should be about half as easy as winning, (as it is a tie and by definition and the score award is halved)  therefore, I should be able to consistently draw against players twice my skill level. In the above game for example, the opponent seemed to be one step ahead of me at every turn, (even though he has an 800 rating) so it makes me suspicious.  Where he was trying to win and i was trying to draw, It should have been an easy day for me, as it is theoretically half as difficult.

uri65
vantangler wrote:

@uri.   Winning is certainly more difficult that not winning, (where losing is a certainty if one tries to do so)  so drawing should be about half as easy as winning, (as it is a tie and by definition and the score award is halved)  therefore, I should be able to consistently draw against players twice my skill level. In the above game for example, the opponent seemed to be one step ahead of me at every turn, (even though he has an 800 rating) so it makes me suspicious.  Where he was trying to win and i was trying to draw, It should have been an easy day for me, as it is theoretically half as difficult.

Sorry but you are making a lot of theories without any substantial evidence.

Your opponent was 253 rating points above you. According to rating predictions it means he is expected to win 81% of points, while you take the remaining 19%. In practice that could mean that out of 100 games he will win on average 71, draw 20, and loose 9. As you can see against such an opponent you have 71/20=3.5 times more chances to loose than to draw.

You can have a look at rating calculators here https://chess-db.com/public/winprob.jsp?elo1=890&elo2=637 or here https://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm

 

vantangler

Thanks for chiming in and coming to to my defense Pawnstorm, I see you can comprehend simple math as well.

 

Blessings.

vantangler

So back on point to the subject, (I did not want to get into an argument about two mainstream drawing odd theories), at what point should I begin looking to force a draw rather than go for the win?  I usually start shortly after my queen has been lost, or when things are not going my way, it hasn't worked in my favor over my last few hundred games.

AutisticCath
vantangler wrote:

Like the subject says.  Whenever I am losing I cannot for the life of me force a draw!  It's getting borderline ridiculous, and makes me wonder if everyone with a good rating is using an engine to assist. 

Here is an annotated example:


 I know drawing is easy when your outclassed, but i am just having a hard time figuring out the 100% solution to drawing every time I am losing a game.  Am I doing something wrong?!? or is there more nefarious work afoot?

You threw away pieces. How do you force a draw when you hang pieces left and right?

vantangler

H4?  I Like to get the rook out soonest.

uri65
vantangler wrote:

So back on point to the subject, (I did not want to get into an argument about two mainstream drawing odd theories), at what point should I begin looking to force a draw rather than go for the win?  I usually start shortly after my queen has been lost, or when things are not going my way, it hasn't worked in my favor over my last few hundred games.

First of all "force a draw" is not a very good term because with exception of theoretical endgames you can't force it. You can play for a draw. But should you? I am not sure. Giving pieces away and hoping for a stalemate is the worst strategy in my opinion. Instead try to put maximal resistance, play the best chess you can, at your level mistakes happen very often, maybe your opponent will make the next one and you will be able to equalize or even get an advantage.

vantangler

@newengland:  once i realize i am not is position to win.  I like to start deceptively hanging pieces, while secretly calculating my stale mate... As you can see in the annotation, I was on the cusp of getting rid of my pawns (for a stale mate), but accidentally let my self get checkmated. 

vantangler

Because the rooks cover more surface area, and are more expendable than the queen.  Its a low risk/high reward opening.

uri65
vantangler wrote:

Because the rooks cover more surface area, and are more expendable than the queen.  Its a low risk/high reward opening.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-principles-of-the-opening

vantangler

I find that when I get out of theory, that the opponents I am matched up with are generally lost if I use unorthodox lines.  I think that once I get really good, (like 1000+), I'll try and learn a few regular opening's, because at that level the opponents will probably know the theory very well.

crimson_order

... I think, he thinks, if you can't move your king it's stalemate...

Lagomorph

Stop wasting our time troll

lfPatriotGames
vantangler wrote:

@newengland:  once i realize i am not is position to win.  I like to start deceptively hanging pieces, while secretly calculating my stale mate... As you can see in the annotation, I was on the cusp of getting rid of my pawns (for a stale mate), but accidentally let my self get checkmated. 

At least you accidentally got checkmated, instead of intentionally. But it might be difficult for some to tell the difference. The reason is because if you really are trying to force a draw, taking the opponents pieces instead of losing your own makes the job MUCH easier.

Pulpofeira
vantangler escribió:

I find that when I get out of theory, that the opponents I am matched up with are generally lost if I use unorthodox lines.  I think that once I get really good, (like 1000+), I'll try and learn a few regular opening's, because at that level the opponents will probably know the theory very well.

Opening theory, do you mean? I personally have no clue about that, I doubt I will ever do. At our level we are always out of theory. I'd suggest you forget about that for a while and just stick to basic principles (development, control of the center, castling). To properly study lines you must understand the game first.

jsaepuru

There are possibilities to force a draw, but they are not so easy. And they generally require the opponent to make blunders you can exploit.

One is perpetual check. The opponent has more pieces, but they are poorly placed, so you have a check where they cannot save their king.

This has several possible outcomes depending on how bad the position of opponent´s king is:

  1. You might win by checkmating the king left hanging
  2. You might gain material - when the opponent is forced to address the check, you capture a piece left unprotected behind the king (skewer) or in another direction (fork)
  3. You might force a draw by forcing threefold repetition. That´s the perpetual check.

Note that all three are possible only if the side with more pieces has made the blunder of hanging his king.

AutisticCath
vantangler wrote:

@newengland:  once i realize i am not is position to win.  I like to start deceptively hanging pieces, while secretly calculating my stale mate... As you can see in the annotation, I was on the cusp of getting rid of my pawns (for a stale mate), but accidentally let my self get checkmated. 

That doesn't force a draw though. You want to always play your best move regardless. Go for the win at all times. Especially at your level.