Was Bobby Fischer crazy?

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Avatar of lutak22
Bobby Fischer had Jewish heritage
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Morons will inherit the earth.
Avatar of president_max

already have

Avatar of lutak22

And I bet you guys think slaves built the pyramids
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no, ponzi did.

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urk wrote:

But I have no patience with idiotic 9/11, Building 7 conspiracy theorists.

The  [vulgar language removed]mod  BUILDING WAS POUNDED WITH DEBRIS, HAD A CORNER KNOCKED OUT, AND BURNED FOR HOURS!!

MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell all that to U.S. Army General Stubblebine...

General Stubblebine on 9/11 - OH MY GOD!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvTWqx8UZ2o

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ha a number 10002 BF thread on here.

Avatar of lutak22
Everyone here should look into ruby ridge and Waco Texas . Also major government involvement in the OKC bombings . I think Bobby was correct about the US government.
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lutak22 wrote:
Bobby Fischer had Jewish heritage

 

True, but pretty much irrelevant. Although Bobby Fischer's mother relied on financial assistance from Jewish relief organization when the children were very young, I've never seen any evidence she was observant. Being both a communist and Jewish at that time would have been ... awkward for her.

What's clear is that soon after winning the world championship Bobby had a falling out with his chosen religion, the Worldwide Church of God. Something about the Messiah not actually appearing in 1972 as their leader had promised. Then he discovered The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and similar writings. As Frank Brady relates in Endgame, that's when Bobby wrote that "Christianity itself is just a Jewish hoax and one more Jewish tool for their conquest of the world." So while he wasn't yet the full raving nutter of his later years, the craziness was already on display in 1973.

Avatar of chesslover0003

From footage and interviews I've seen/heard, I believe Fischer likely had mental health issues. Interesting quote about the Soviets cheating.

 

The KGB have been known to gaslight people and the Soviets/Russians have been known to cheat in sports.  I think it's possible that there could have been collusion to prearrange games and offer draws between team members (I never thought of this form of cheating before), however, I have not heard of any confessions from players (would it tarnish their reputation?).

Avatar of AnnChess2

His fame and press attention impacted him in a negative way. He started to think a lot about his own personality, about him being exceptional, and it lead a way to damaging his psyche. 

Avatar of tygorius
berdelyi wrote:

From footage and interviews I've seen/heard, I believe Fischer likely had mental health issues. Interesting quote about the Soviets cheating.

Mental or not, Fischer was right about Soviet collusion at the 1962 Candidates Tournament. Statistics (and later, both Korchnoi and Averbakh) pointed to a virtual non-aggression pact with Petrosian, Geller, and Keres making short draws in all their games against each other. Fischer came in 4th behind them in the tournament and subsequently wrote his famous article for Sports Illustrated.

Avatar of chesslover0003

@tugorius Yes, I think mental health issues are separate from the claims of cheating (or perhaps part of it).  I don't think the cheating allegations are far fetched.  I know he displayed a lot of paranoia about some electronic devices in chairs... who knows.  He was on the forefront of a political war with the Soviets.  I suspect his celebrity status had a big impact on his mental health that the Soviets could also manipulate.

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...just read the book 'ENDGAME' (Frank Brady) about the 'spectacular rise and fall of Bobby Fischer'.

In my opinion he was/became paranoid. But it is said, that just because you are paranoid, it does not mean, they are not after you...

Avatar of tygorius
JMurakami wrote:

Lets accept that repeating the nonsense someone writes or says is proof enough of craziness. How many people would qualify as crazy then?

Someone should read what Kant wrote about people from Africa.

Sure, bigotry is quite common in humans. So when Fischer visits his married Jewish sister and is asked to leave after a few days because of his antisemitic remarks, by itself that's not a sign of craziness, just ordinary bigotry. (Alekhine is another famous example.)

But when people bump things up a level, becoming obsessive and disfunctional it's a different matter. It's one thing to dislike Jews; it's quite another to spot workmen on a roof across from your apartment and comment, as Fischer did to Zita, that it's probably the Mossad spying on him.

If someone really thinks their problems are because the Jews/Illuminati/Greys are secretly controlling events, then as I'm concerned they've taken up residence in Crazy Town.

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All Fischer could was TAKE, TAKE and  never GIVE.

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Just going back to the Fischer & Jews things, Most europeans/Americans have never met Jews from the original 12 tribes. Hell, even Israel pays them to go back to Africa because they are black skinned. So when Fischer and you guys refer to Jews, you are not talking about biblical Jews of the original 12 tribes. 

Even the 'original' Jews living in Iran refuse to go to Israel as they know it has nothing to do with Judaism.

Avatar of tygorius
JMurakami wrote:
 

That's the point. Fischer hardly if ever learned to behave any other way. When playing chess and winning, people didn't care that much, yet he never stopped being an ignorant on matters other than chess.

See, one thing is lacking coherence and another to base arguments on dubious or non existent facts. For example, we don't say people are crazy just because they follow and preach unproved conspiracy theories but, if Fischer, oh yeah, he was nuts. But, when a president says God told him, in dreams, he had to go to war against some country, no one says nothing. They actually re–elect him for the charge. Then, who's crazy?

If you're really interested in Fischer, read Frank Brady's Endgame. It seems clear that Bobby could learn different behaviors in his early years. For example, as a teenager he apparently got tired of being criticized for his jeans and sneakers. I think it was Pal Benko who then took him to a tailor and helped him upgrade to bespoke suits and nicer clothes. I have a lot of sympathy for the young Bobby growing up poor with a working mother.

The Bobby-was-just-ignorant-of-things-outside-of-chess theory isn't based on facts, however. It's true that after he won the world championship he lost his religion and really had few emotional connections outside of the chess world. But at that time he also started reading and broadening his education. It's unfortunate that his reading books like Eric Hoffer's The True Believer and the works of Nietzsche didn't have a stronger impact on his critical thinking, but perhaps he was already addicted to conspiracies at that point.

Avatar of tygorius
lugada wrote:

All Fischer could was TAKE, TAKE and  never GIVE.

How sad it is that I find myself agreeing with this sentiment. Most of us have romantic, familial, religious, or professional connections that let us feel part of something greater than ourselves. But Fischer's devotion to chess in the large always seemed abstract -- there were plenty of post-championship opportunities for him to give back, for example, that came to nothing because "People are trying to exploit me. Nobody is going to make a nickel off of me!"

As to his romantic relationships, they were all after he had become a celebrity with all the problems that entails. Most of them reminded me of the old (rather cynical) French observation that in love there is always one that kisses and one that offers their cheek.

Avatar of ilikewindmills
Maybe he's not a racist. It seems he hates everyone equally. Like me.