Was Fischer afraid of Karpov

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Scottrf
yeres30 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
yeres30 wrote:

Why exactly would Fischer fear a Karpov in a 10 game match draws not counted? 

Why exactly would anyone even think that Karpov even had a fighting chance against Fischer?

In the 1975 Candidates Matches

Karpov beat Polugaevsy: 3 wins, 5 draws
Karpov beat Spassky: 4 wins, 1 loss, 6 draws
Karpov beat Korchnoi: 3 wins, 2 losses, 19 draw.

In 43 games, Karpov whom Fischer is touted to be afraid of had 10 wins, 3 losses and 30 draws.

Karpov beat Korchnoi by a slim one-point margin of 12.5-11.5

So, can anyone explain why Fischer would even be afraid of this Drawing GM in a match where Draws don't count?  

Can anyone explain how a Fischer who wins a lot more games than draws would be afraid of a Karpov who draws a whole lot more games than wins ---- in a 10 game match where draws don't count?

Fischer's kind of positional chess leads to wins.  Karpov's kind of positinal chess leads to draws and very rarely lead to wins 

 

Fischer had 7 wins in 21 games against Spassky...more draws than wins.

Fischer had a score of +7, -3, =11 against Spassky in a 24-game match.
Karpov had a score of +4, -1, =6  in an 11 game match in 1974 candidates against Spassky
Against Korchnoi in the 1974 candidates match, Karpov had a score of +3, -2, =19.

In two tournaments alone in 1973 - prior to the 1974 Candidates that Karpov took part in Karpov had the following record:

Madrid where he took first - +7, =11 
Budapest 1973 where he took 2nd (9.5) behind Efim Geller (10.5):
+4, =11

In the 41st USSR Championship in 1973 where Spassky took first with 11.5 and Karpov tied for 2nd-6th place at 10.5, Karpov had a score of  +5, -1,  =11

You were trying to claim Fischer's style lead to wins, and Karpov's to draws.

Karpov actually had a higher winning percentage given this (candidates vs WC) (36% vs 33%) against Spassky and a better result (64% vs 52%).

TRANKD

He might have been afraid, since Karpov was a player of his calibre (or at least almost). Karpov>Spassky.

JMB2010

Fischer was a completely type of animal. Spassky was, for the most part, lazy, but with great natural talent. In many people's opinion he was even the favorite going into the 1972 match. Karpov was working day and night with cutting edge theory, and had a style much similar to Fischer's own. In any event, it would be a very close match.

WanderingPuppet
JMB2010 wrote:

Fischer was a completely type of animal. Spassky was, for the most part, lazy, but with great natural talent. In many people's opinion he was even the favorite going into the 1972 match. Karpov was working day and night with cutting edge theory, and had a style much similar to Fischer's own. In any event, it would be a very close match.

Well the Fischer-Karpov match as well as flying unicorns never came fruition so we'll never know.

I never really believed that you could get to WC level by being lazy.  I can believe it a little bit.  But for the most part I do not.  I consider the possibility of Spassky being lazy as likely as me beating a WC in bulletz last night.  Innocent  But I digress.

pretty cool Fischer Spassky documentary for interested peeps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gO5Cro1qUE

wiselady

Fischer was probably just bored of chess

TheOldReb

Robert James Fischer 
Number of games in database: 992
Years covered: 1953 to 1992
Last FIDE rating: 2780
Highest rating achieved in database: 2785
Overall record: +420 -86 =247 (72.2%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games


Anatoly Karpov 
Number of games in database: 3,559
Years covered: 1961 to 2014
Last FIDE rating: 2623 (2630 rapid, 2644 blitz)
Highest rating achieved in database: 2780
Overall record: +977 -235 =1303 (64.8%)*
   * Overall winning percentage = (wins+draws/2) / total games


The above does support that Fischer's style of play did lead to more wins and fewer draws than Karpov's .  

TheGreatOogieBoogie

I think Fischer had on some level a reasonable worry, but afraid is too strong of a word.  I like Fischer's chances mainly for the reasons Reb gave.  However, as Kramnik-Kasparov proved upsets are highly possible especially with specific prep catered to that opponent.  Fischer I think would win the first match but Karpov would have good chances in a rematch. 

patzermike

I disagree. Fischer had fears of losing. Once he actually sat down at the board and played all fear went away and he was profoundly confident. With Fischer the problem was getting to the board.

BigSlick666 wrote:

Fischers ego did not allow him to be afraid of anyone. He viewed almost all his opponents (especially Russian) with utter contempt instead.

TheOldReb

Fischer actually liked at least 3 Russian GMs : Spassky , Tal , and Keres . If you read his " My 60 Memorable Games " its also obvious he had great respect for Petrosian , at least when he did this work/book .  

patzermike

Careful with the attribution.. I did not write that. rdecredico wrote:

patzermike wrote:

 

Fischers ego did not allow him to be afraid of anyone. He viewed almost all his opponents (especially Russian) with utter contempt instead.

Complete bullshit.

TheOldReb

On the chessboard Fischer feared noone , he had no reason to . 

patzermike

Yes!! At the chessboard he was fine. But agreeing to play and get to the chessboard was a different matter. Reb wrote:

On the chessboard Fischer feared noone , he had no reason to . 

wiselady

fischer had to read informations or chess bulletins to get the games of the russians.

but karpov probably was able to download all of fischer's games using the internet and the cloud.

TheOldReb

I would think Karpov got most of Fischer's games from books in the 60s and 70s as the internet didnt exist yet . 

Scottrf
yeres30 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:

Fischer had 7 wins in 21 games against Spassky...more draws than wins.

True.

Except you forget that Fischer had a score of 6-0 against Taimanov and 6-0 against Larsen.  And +5, -1,=3 against Petrosian. 

Against Korchnoi, Karpov had 3 wins, 2 losses and get this 19 draws!!

Tournament play prior to 1972:    Karpov had unbelievable number of draws to wins: +7, =11 in Madrid, +4 =11 in Budapest, +5 -1 =11 in the 41st USSR. 

In the 1970 Interzonal, Fischer had +15, -1, =7.

Karpov and the Russian Federation were scared of Fischer not the other way around.

I don't forget anything, I was just using a common opponent, and one you started the discussion on to show that against similar opposition perhaps the numbers aren't as striking. With the tournament performances and wins Karpov has (over more than a few weeks) it's a bit of an insult to call him drawish. It's easier to look great for a short period of time. It's called being a flash in the pan.

Perhaps Caruana should have retired after he was 7-0 in Sinquefield and lived off that like Fischer fans live off 2 candidates matches against 2600 players.

wiselady

Whaat dors trolling mean?

Mersaphe wrote:

wiselady wrote:

fischer had to read informations or chess bulletins to get the games of the russians.

but karpov probably was able to download all of fischer's games using the internet and the cloud.

trolling at its finest

Scottrf

Actually that's not a fact. Some statisticians don't believe in rating inflation. Of course the people whose favourite players this effects don't agree.

2800 not better than 2600 40 years ago is a clueless comment regardless.

mortalbovine

Karpov said:  "I don't want to claim that [Fischer] was afraid of me; most probably he was afraid of HIMSELF ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm1Wo6M8AdE

Iluvsmetuna

Fischer fans ? What ? I'm more into Rihanna.

TheOldReb

Who/what is a Rihanna ?