Was Fischer afraid of Karpov

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mpaetz

     Fischer wasn't afraid of Karpov in particular. He just had too much of his ego and self-image invested in his chess successes to take the risk of losing the championship to anyone. It was easier for him to quit playing and keep thinking of himself as the greatest player ever.

DiogenesDue
mpaetz wrote:

     Fischer wasn't afraid of Karpov in particular. He just had too much of his ego and self-image invested in his chess successes to take the risk of losing the championship to anyone. It was easier for him to quit playing and keep thinking of himself as the greatest player ever.

It's pretty obvious from Fischer's behavior that he was always supremely confident in his chess playing, but less confident that the world, the Soviets, etc. wouldn't find some way to cheat him out of his just due.  That paranoia, once he became world champ, allowed him to make even more unreasonable demands to assure himself he could not be cheated, and in his mind, much like Carlsen now, he was the best player by a country mile (and he was at the time), and so had no reason to compromise in any way. 

The '92 match proved him correct in that regard, as the prize fund still dwarfed the FIDE WCC even after his 20 year hiatus, a fact that FIDE would grind their teeth about since they had missed out on 20 years of similar prize funds.

Fischer was not a nice human being, but the anti-Fischer (i.e. anti-American) sentiments regarding his chess play and whether he would have beaten Karpov are just sour grapes.  Fischer and Karpov both said Fischer would have won in '75 (and Kasparov said so, too, for good measure), so...what does the kibitzing of amateurs amount to?  Not much.

dude0812
btickler wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

     Fischer wasn't afraid of Karpov in particular. He just had too much of his ego and self-image invested in his chess successes to take the risk of losing the championship to anyone. It was easier for him to quit playing and keep thinking of himself as the greatest player ever.

It's pretty obvious from Fischer's behavior that he was always supremely confident in his chess playing, but less confident that the world, the Soviets, etc. wouldn't find some way to cheat him out of his just due.  That paranoia, once he became world champ, allowed him to make even more unreasonable demands to assure himself he could not be cheated, and in his mind, much like Carlsen now, he was the best player by a country mile (and he was at the time), and so had no reason to compromise in any way. 

The '92 match proved him correct in that regard, as the prize fund still dwarfed the FIDE WCC even after his 20 year hiatus, a fact that FIDE would grind their teeth about since they had missed out on 20 years of similar prize funds.

Fischer was not a nice human being, but the anti-Fischer (i.e. anti-American) sentiments regarding his chess play and whether he would have beaten Karpov are just sour grapes.  Fischer and Karpov both said Fischer would have won in '75 (and Kasparov said so, too, for good measure), so...what does the kibitzing of amateurs amount to?  Not much.

Any moral person, any patriot is anti American. Fischer was crazy for thinking Soviets could cheat him just as much Korchnoi was crazy for thinking Soviets hypnotised him and tried black magic on him. The only people who have sour grapes are Americans who only had one world champion while the Soviets dominated you and Russians and Chinese people still dominate you with Nepomniatchi and Ding Liren being the 2 best players in the world after Carlsen. You wouldn't have any famous chess players if you didn't steal players from other countries. Half of your best players have Slavic origin. Your best players now are Hikaru Nakamura, Wesley So, Fabiano Caruana, none of them have US origin.

Pulpofeira

Well, one can't excel in everything. Not so long ago Soviet men had to play against American kids in basketball to make things more or less equal.

DiogenesDue
dude0812 wrote:

Any moral person, any patriot is anti American. Fischer was crazy for thinking Soviets could cheat him just as much Korchnoi was crazy for thinking Soviets hypnotised him and tried black magic on him. The only people who have sour grapes are Americans who only had one world champion while the Soviets dominated you and Russians and Chinese people still dominate you with Nepomniatchi and Ding Liren being the 2 best players in the world after Carlsen. You wouldn't have any famous chess players if you didn't steal players from other countries. Half of your best players have Slavic origin. Your best players now are Hikaru Nakamura, Wesley So, Fabiano Caruana, none of them have US origin.

Your bigotry is showing.

Nakamura and Caruana are American citizens and grew up in America.  But since they have ethnic surnames...race-based assumptions are made.  Shankland and Xiong are also home-grown Americans.  

As for So, Aronian. Dominguez, etc. they are also Americans, by choice, which is also perfectly valid.  Where's the Slavic "half" you mentioned?  Aronian?

Thanks for the sterling example of the fact that anti-Fischer sentiment is almost always inextricably tied to anti-American sentiment, though.  Nepo is to Carlsen as Karpov was to Fischer, in terms of rating differentials and chess playing skill.    

I count 7 Americans and 10 Russians over 2700.  The difference is that the average American over 2700 is rated much higher than the Russians, who have largely slipped to also-rans among super-GMs (5 of those ten are barely hanging on to 2700 by a thread).  That's just the reality.

Renny_Schlemiel

What does it mean to have an ethnic surname? Do you mean ethnic in the sense that it's not of English origin?  In my mind all surnames are ethnic unless the name is made up. 

mpaetz
btickler wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

     Fischer wasn't afraid of Karpov in particular. He just had too much of his ego and self-image invested in his chess successes to take the risk of losing the championship to anyone. It was easier for him to quit playing and keep thinking of himself as the greatest player ever.

It's pretty obvious from Fischer's behavior that he was always supremely confident in his chess playing, but less confident that the world, the Soviets, etc. wouldn't find some way to cheat him out of his just due.  That paranoia, once he became world champ, allowed him to make even more unreasonable demands to assure himself he could not be cheated, and in his mind, much like Carlsen now, he was the best player by a country mile (and he was at the time), and so had no reason to compromise in any way. 

The '92 match proved him correct in that regard, as the prize fund still dwarfed the FIDE WCC even after his 20 year hiatus, a fact that FIDE would grind their teeth about since they had missed out on 20 years of similar prize funds.

Fischer was not a nice human being, but the anti-Fischer (i.e. anti-American) sentiments regarding his chess play and whether he would have beaten Karpov are just sour grapes.  Fischer and Karpov both said Fischer would have won in '75 (and Kasparov said so, too, for good measure), so...what does the kibitzing of amateurs amount to?  Not much.

     Fischer certainly believed that he was the best. He apparently also believed that FIDE and the Soviets would (and had) cheat(ed) to keep him back. Once he no longer had the purpose of proving himself the best he let his paranoia and delusions take over. As long as he wasn't defeated he (and others) could continue to believe he was still #1. He never played a single game as world champion.

     It was Reuben Fine, professional psychologist, world-class player and a man who had known Bobby for many years, who predicted before the 1972 match vs Spassky that should Fischer win his insecurities would prevent him from risking his self-esteem by ever playing again.

DiogenesDue
Renny_Schlemiel wrote:

What does it mean to have an ethnic surname? Do you mean ethnic in the sense that it's not of English origin?  In my mind all surnames are ethnic unless the name is made up. 

Ethnic in the sense that it is readily identifiable with some ancestry, which may or not be the culture they grew up with.  There are plenty of surnames that are far less "identifiable" than Nakamura or Caruana.

When people bring up Nakamura and Caruana all the time, they often are surprised to find out they grew up in America...which identifies an assumption based on their surname.

The world has a long way to go on foregoing such assumptions.

Knights_of_Doom

Fischer had ZERO fear of Karpov, chess-wise.  However, he had clinical psychological issues, and a massive ego.  It's a miracle the match with Spassky happened at all - actually, it's largely thanks to Spassky himself, who was willing to cooperate with Fischer's demands, I think because he knew how historic the match would be, win or lose.  And Fischer's paranoia was right about one thing - Karpov was not going to be as amenable as Spassky - if Karpov's team told him to do something, he would do it without question.  And I think Fischer did fear what the Russian team might do.

And if you think that's wild conspiracy stuff, just look at what they did in the Korchnoi matches - the back-and-forth with Parapsychologist Zhokar, the way Korchnoi's family was treated, the Ananda Marga, and Karpov refusing to shake hands at just the most strategic moment.  All off the board stuff designed specifically to upset Korchnoi.  Neither Spassky nor any of his predecessors would have stood for it.

mpaetz

     Undoubtedly the Soviets would have tried anything to upset Fischer and try to influence the match. Korchnoi was another unstable personality and was likely bothered by the shenanigans both camps were pulling in those matches.

     Still, Fischer was a stronger player than Korchnoi and Karpov was less experienced in 1972. My opinion: Fischer would have won the 1975 match. It was Bobby's own psychological issues that kept him from playing any games after he became champion. If he hadn't squandered most of his money, leaving him broke, it's unlikely he would have played the match vs Spassky in Yugoslavia, even though the championship was not at stake.

JogoReal

Fischer had a big hungry Ego and he fed it with chess at an young age. But chess was also something that gave Fischer pain along his life, emotional pain, psychological pain. When Fischer became World Champion chess lost its value as food for his Ego but the pain was still there and growing. After that Fischer distance himself from chess and talk about chess as something in his past, something painful, that has to be transformed until become less painful (Fischer Random, Fischer clock, etc.).

idilis
Renny_Schlemiel wrote:

When Fischer dominated Petrosian during the 1971 candidates match, Petrosian was not in his prime like some has claimed. Fischer was 28 years old, Petrosian was 42, about a decade past his prime. 

I propose capital punishment for anyone who bumps a @superking500 or @superqueen500 topic.

ArranVid1
ChezzAnna wrote:

Yes he was afraid of Karpov. 2-3 years later he stayed with Polgar sisters in Hungary and they would also beat Fischer more often. If Fischer would have stayed till Kasparov's arrival then Kaspy would have crushed him.

I know that Bobby stayed with the Polgar sisters, but I never knew that they were beating him sometimes at chess. Do you have evidence for this??

ArranVid1
Big-Bad-KittyCat wrote:

Fischer could sleep with vampires, can't blame him for retiring way he did, Karpov would have bored his pants off, took him another 19 years to even reach Fischers outdated rating, playing hundreds of games more than Fischer.

Actually, I don't think Anatoly Karpov ever reached Bobby's peak rating. Bobby's peak rating back in around 1972 was 2785 I think. Anatoly's peak rating was 2780, if I am not mistaken.

ArranVid1
TheOldReb wrote:

Karpov has an even record against Petrosian and we all know what Fischer did to Petrosian . Those who think Fischer feared Karpov know little of chess .

Rock papers scissors logic does not work in chess. Someone else could argue that Anatoly Karpov defeated Boris Spassky (arguably Bobby's strongest ever chess opponent) more easily than Bobby ever did.

DiogenesDue
idilis wrote:

I propose capital punishment for anyone who bumps a @superking500 or @superqueen500 topic.