What is average depth human is searching in online chess?

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Mastermind_95
Fezzik wrote:

Getnacke, if a player could calculate 15-20 moves ahead in every position (30-40 ply, a ply being each half-move), it would be better than just about any computer available.

Again, there are some positions that warrant a deep search, but most GMs only look a few moves deep in any given position. At a guess, most GMs are evaluating  the position about 5-6 moves deep on average. As an exercise, I'd love for the +2300 rated player who claimed s/he calculates 15-20 moves deep to go through a game and annotate everything s/he sees for just 5 moves after the opening and before the endgame.


Fezzik i just returned from country chess youuth cup U16 and i was 2nd... I played with player positioned one and in one position i had 3 best moves and only 3 , I have watched depth 20 for all of them and couldn`t find winning position for me with all best moves for both sides ... I have josen best variant and it was draw at the end at 89th move...

P.S : Game time was !h per player ...

musicalhair
Ziryab wrote:
musicalhair wrote:

I don't think there is a constant average of "moves ahead" that people here are calculating.  I think it is best described by the following function f(x):

 

f(x)= 1/b; where b= the number of beers consumed prior to the move in question.


Does it matter whether it is low voltage common lager or a high-end craft brew?

What about whiskey and whisky? Does the proof effect the equation?


Yes, we'll have to tweak the equation to account for proof of anything being consumed and for the preservatives and chemicals included in crappy beers, plus other chemical consumed by the player-- plus their cumulative effect.  I need a beer just typing this stuff.

02Wesley
Mastermind_95 wrote:
Fezzik wrote:

Getnacke, if a player could calculate 15-20 moves ahead in every position (30-40 ply, a ply being each half-move), it would be better than just about any computer available.

Again, there are some positions that warrant a deep search, but most GMs only look a few moves deep in any given position. At a guess, most GMs are evaluating  the position about 5-6 moves deep on average. As an exercise, I'd love for the +2300 rated player who claimed s/he calculates 15-20 moves deep to go through a game and annotate everything s/he sees for just 5 moves after the opening and before the endgame.


Fezzik i just returned from country chess youuth cup U16 and i was 2nd... I played with player positioned one and in one position i had 3 best moves and only 3 , I have watched depth 20 for all of them and couldn`t find winning position for me with all best moves for both sides ... I have josen best variant and it was draw at the end at 89th move...

P.S : Game time was !h per player ...


 Well, to be honest, your incredible Fide rating speaks in favor of you..

But 15-20 moves really is a lot, and I think you can imagine we are quite sceptical about it, since only you know whether it is true..

Frankdawg

The complexity of the board determines the depth in which can be seen.

 

For example:

 

if I have a rook and a pawn, and you have just a rook, I can see 20 moves ahead.

If we each have 3 or 4 pawns, and a couple of minor pieces I can probably see 4 or 5 moves ahead.

If the game just started and we are on move 1, I can only see 2 or 3 moves ahead.

Shivsky

Case in point, a fun puzzle where  club players I showed this to (barely 1600-1700 rated) figured the whole idea out (25+ moves (not ply, sorry) of calculation! Gasp!!!)  in a matter of a few minutes.

White to move. Can he win this?

heinzie

That's more like 80 ply although I lost count

Ziryab
Shivsky wrote:

Case in point, a fun puzzle where  club players I showed this to (barely 1600-1700 rated) figured the whole idea out (25+ moves (not ply, sorry) of calculation! Gasp!!!)  in a matter of a few minutes.

White to move. Can he win this?

 

 


The king is in the square, so I look only one move ahead. Once the first task is accomplished, I'll look forward two or three moves as I execute the second task. Then perhaps two moves ahead executing the promotion and then mate.

Assuming White makes the only correct first move, Black can resign.

 

*edit*

On second thought, White has a bit of work to do. I may need to look four or five, maybe even ten moves ahead.

Mastermind_95

Easy got it up in 1 minute 

Pretty easy :)
getnacke

The idea here I guess is: First take the a pawn and then go and take the pawn on f3 and then all the way back to a6 and force the pawn on f4 to move and then all the way back again and take it and after f4 the pawn on e4 marches to victory.

Ziryab

Took me 48 moves to checkmate Hiarcs 12: that's 96 ply, but I did not calculate more than two or three moves. Black's choices are nil; White's plan is clear cut. Very little calculation is necessary.

Shivsky

Glad people found that easy ... but the point is ... can you say you really saw 48 moves ahead to a won game for White?

I could argue "yes, indeed!" ... but really?

I hope this gives the OP an example of  how  "depth" can mean very different things :)

Ziryab

In Shivsky's position, you need to see one geometric figure (the square of the pawn) to realize that White is not losing. Then you need a clear plan involving key squares on the g-file and on the a- and b-files involving zugzwang to understand White's win. You also need to understand breakthrough. It is an elementary pawn endgame, but not one requiring calculation.

Yes, I see two dozen or more moves ahead, but I calculate very few.

bobbyDK

in here with analysis board you could sort of brute force and play out the game to mate, which isnt possible with OTB chess. with analysis board you can play against yourself till you find the move that you want to use. actually till mate if you take the time.... this isn't possible in OTB unless you have some sort of blind chess ability to play to mate against yourself with virtually all moves.

Fred_Fotch

I think it's impossible to thoroughly calculate more than 5 or 6 ply ahead in complicated positions which you have not seen before.  Even if each player only has two reasonable candidates for their move, calculating 6 ply means looking at 64 possibilities.  Sure, some moves will be basically forced, but other moves have 3 or more reasonable possibilities.  Good players will look much deeper along some of these lines, but they cannot look deeper at all the reasonable lines.