What is the point of 960??

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Fat_Moose
I don't seem to grasp why, if one were trying to improve their chess game, one would want to start off games in bogus positions. Seems strange to me.
The_Chin_Of_Quinn

It's a variant, it's for fun, not improvement. Some other popular variants are bughouse, losers, and 3 check.

game_designer

Chess has one starting position.

A lot of theory exists for chess in the opening, this has been created over centuries.

In recent years the amount of theory has increased because of computers, it means a lot of moves that are played in the opening are played from memory.

At the grandmaster level, and even lower levels, it is quite common for theory to be played past move 20 and even 30, yes move 30.

Bobby Fischer invented the game and he called it Fischer Random, some other people called it Chess960.

The game has 960 possible random setups, you use dice to randomly setup the position at the start of the game, there are some rules in the setup, bishops must be on opposite colours to keep the game in balance and the king must be between the two rooks so that castling is possible.

The point of the game is that most of the opening theory is eliminated because the opening position is random for each game.

The game however does have it's own problems, White has a bigger advantage in some starting positions because he can advance a pawn and at the same time attack an undefended pawn with a long range piece like a bishop.

Other positions are quite odd for example when all the bishops start on the corner squares of the board, they only have one diagonal to use and all the bishops are facing each other in the starting position.

It is also difficult to structure the openings into groups so that people can study and learn opening "patterns"

The point of the game was to throw away theory and place more emphasis on natural talent. 

The_Chin_Of_Quinn

 Which is misguided because "natural talent" doesn't exist. Like any deep skill, the depth of the competition (and IMO satisfaction) comes from two players who have practiced a lot. You can see this in sport, art, science, anything.

Also some starting positions in 960 aren't equal. A better solution to place less emphasis on opening theory (although modern players already play tons of londons and d3 Ruys do this on their own) would be to select a small number of equal starting positions that a game could being from. Then from those few, either make the starting position random, or let the players agree on one of them.

game_designer

@The_Chin_Of_Quinn

A better solution?

What a joke.

Faith56

Alright Too Cute! 🌹

The_Chin_Of_Quinn
game_designer wrote:

@The_Chin_Of_Quinn

A better solution?

What a joke.

What I describe has already been used, and for the reasons I gave. You might be better informed if you didn't block everyone who bothers to talk to you.

game_designer

@The_Chin_Of_Quinn

Yawn.

universityofpawns

I think 960 helps position evaluation and calculation skills in the openings because there are too many possibilities to memorize....but it seems to morph into an ordinary chess game usually about in the middle of the mid-game...

game_designer

@universityofpawns

For me it feels kinda awkward in the early opening but then usually after the trade of one or two minor pieces and a few pawns it starts feeling normal, say by mid middle game, sometimes early middle game, after that it just looks and feels like chess. 

FRENCHBASHER001

very interesting I didn't know that lot of starting positions were unequal. 

960 seems the future of chess : 

1. too many draws, even if it is remendous to wait for move 30 to see in the Najdorf if MVL will play a7-a6, 99% of spectators have already left the show

2. when u personalize a champ', which is the today's attitude, imagine u seat to see let us say djokovitch having 49.9 % of odds to make a draw (tennis). Well... that is the case with WCC Magnus Carlsen 

6. the russian school invested time and science in classic chess set, with two main line e4, or d4. Thus they 'll keep a leadership in a mass game for years. But if they have to study deeply other starting positions, it will give the same opportunities to other countries (india, china, USA etc ...)

Imagine the wealth for the world of chess if it becomes as popular everywhere as in Russia. 

Sooner or later, imho, 60 will be the Rule. May be excluding starting positions >0.2

thatwhichpasses
I stopped playing 960 after a guy went berserk on me. I lost a rook right off and resigned and sent a challenge back. I had won the previous game so I figured no biggie. This guy went on and on. He must have sent a dozen messages about what an old coward I was and I had no principles and blah blah. The experience turned me off that variant. But as I recall I needed liked it much but I guess there could be value in it.
human-in-training
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
game_designer wrote:

@The_Chin_Of_Quinn

A better solution?

What a joke.

What I describe has already been used, and for the reasons I gave. You might be better informed if you didn't block everyone who bothers to talk to you.

 

Hi, game_designer!!  Pity you can't block me in here.  

But seriously, can you please unblock me so that i can send you a Blocking Trophy for being such a blocky idiot, Mr. Warlord?

Look what you've done -- do you see what you bring out in people?!  I don't even really disagree with much of what you've said here (though i agree with what Chin said much, much more), and yet i still feel the need to needle you in an immature fashion.  

YOUR FAULT!

game_designer

I played about 3 or 4 dozen games over the years.

I no longer play it and for that matter I also no longer play chess.

Please excuse the plug...

I have actually made a game that is similar to Fischer Random.

If anybody cares to look at my profile the first thing that you will see is a diagram, that explains everything, no words are required.

On the Chess960 forum I have a main topic and 3 topics for test games, guys are playing 2 test games on the forum right now.

I am also organising 2 strong Fischer Random players to play the last test game using the Symmetrical (Conservative) setup option.

My game is called Final Wars.

game_designer

@human-in-training

For the benefit of the reader.

Here is the link to my topic when I was trying to help a disabled person and a troll interrupted.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/no-more-mouse-slips

human-in-training
thatwhichpasses wrote:
I stopped playing 960 after a guy went berserk on me. I lost a rook right off and resigned and sent a challenge back. I had won the previous game so I figured no biggie. This guy went on and on. He must have sent a dozen messages about what an old coward I was and I had no principles and blah blah. The experience turned me off that variant. But as I recall I needed liked it much but I guess there could be value in it.

 

I think you should give it another chance. You certainly had cause to be turned off by that idiot (and i don't mean game_designer in this instance), but i've come across people like that in Standard Chess as well, and i bet you have too.

Back to the topic at hand:  I don't think 960 belongs in the same category as those other variants -- I think that Fischer was definitely onto something, and that 960 is much more 'worthy' (whatever that means) than, say, Bughouse.

I'm enjoying it more and more all the time.  It definitely seems to be a sort of equalizer, and with maybe just a couple of tweaks (as suggested in comment #5), i think it could be the next logical step in the evolution of chess. 

human-in-training
game_designer wrote:

@human-in-training

For the benefit of the reader.

Here is the link to my topic when I was trying to help a disabled person and a troll interrupted.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/no-more-mouse-slips

 

...wherein even the person you were attempting to 'save' from me seemed to come around in the end to acknowledge the fact that you were being too 'block-happy' and that i had something worthy to say.

I apologized to her and admitted that i was being a jerk (albeit not toward her -- she seemed to have mistakenly thought that i was addressing her in my comment).

I was going to apologize to you, too, Mr. Warlord game_designer, but then i remembered that i didn't want to, and realized that you deserve all of the childish taunts i can manage to fling at you.

null

 

game_designer

@human-in-training

The disabled person is very new.

I think it was one of her first posts on the forums.

Then you sent her private messages after I blocked you.

Goodbye

Warlord

human-in-training
game_designer wrote:

The disabled person is very new.

I think it was one of her first posts on the forums.

 

 What does that have to do with anything?  I was (and am) talking to you.  

human-in-training

@ game_designer:

Lastly, she never actually says in that thread that she's disabled.  

Perhaps she is, or maybe she PMed you about it, but if we're judging based solely on what she posted, she very well might be just some sort of perfectly 'abled' social worker or caretaker, or simply someone compassionate and thoughtful enough to care about the plight of others in that type of boat.

So, if it's true that you know no more about her than what she wrote in that thread, i think you're making a big assumption and are maybe letting the 'white knight' inside you get a little out of hand.

Regardless, i think it's disturbing that you keep bringing that point up -- who cares if she is or isn't disabled??  I wasn't addressing her, or anyone's, disability in my "rude" comment -- i was addressing you, game_hero!