What is the point of cheating? - Chess Forums - Page 2

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#21

BoggleMeBrains wrote:

Same reason people pretend to be Navy Seals or whatever and go round wearing fake medals. They want the respect without having to earn it. It doesn't matter that they know they cheated, what's important is lording it over other people and getting those people to act with deference towards them.

Some people also convince themselves that they are that good anyway, and cheating is just a shortcut or they're only doing it because they're "tired" or some other lame excuse, but they think they deserve to win and therefore it's okay if they save some effort and get the computer to do it because they would have seen those moves anyway. This is usually the same type of person who watches live games with engine analysis and acts like they understand the position better than the 2700+ rated GMs who are playing.

Thanks, I agree with your analysis. In essence it's a personality disorder and the cheater cannot tell the difference between genuine achievement and cheated achievement as long as the resulting praise is the same.

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#22

yorygregovich wrote:

seasideman wrote:

yorygregovich wrote:

lack of self esteem.

That makes a lot of sense. But, the cheater knows that they are cheating so do they really gain self-esteem by cheating?

I realy do think so. I also think they suffer from some kind of personality disorder. I mean if there was money on the table I could understand why people would be tempted to cheat....I get that. But to do it here what is the point besides just having some kind of need to have their ego stroked even by things they know are not true. This is some kind of personality disorder.

I must agree.

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#23

CookedQueen wrote:

seasideman wrote:

... They know they have that higher grade because they have been cheating. What is the benefit of all that effort?

The point is not what he is thinking or knowing, the point is what other people see.

Interesting. So you think they are able to somehow ignore the knowledge that they are cheats since others don't know they are cheats?

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#24

bb_gum234 wrote:

seasideman wrote:

So, why do you think the cheaters do it?

Because it's not fun to lose.

I don't like losing either, but if I've cheated I don't see it as winning. It's just losing in a different way.

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#25

bb_gum234 wrote:

Oh, and as other people said, some people actually like the admiration of others even if they 100% cheated and lied and it's totally fake. Yeah that level of cheating doesn't make sense to a lot of us, but in small ways we probably all do this.

Ask someone their income, IQ, height, length, weight, rating, etc online and they're likely to exaggerate a little, so we all expect this to happen in little ways I think.

I see what you mean, but I still don't see the benefit. If I'm overweight and I lie about it, I'm still overweight.

sea_of_trees

Jul 6, 2017

0

#26

seasideman wrote:

yorygregovich wrote:

lack of self esteem.

That makes a lot of sense. But, the cheater knows that they are cheating so do they really gain self-esteem by cheating?

Over half the women in Los Angeles are parading around fake breasts and seem to have incredibly high self-esteem so yeah, fakeness, cheating, give some people self-esteem. Sadly.

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#27

bb_gum234 wrote:

seasideman wrote:

BoggleMeBrains wrote:

Same reason people pretend to be Navy Seals or whatever and go round wearing fake medals. They want the respect without having to earn it. It doesn't matter that they know they cheated, what's important is lording it over other people and getting those people to act with deference towards them.

Some people also convince themselves that they are that good anyway, and cheating is just a shortcut or they're only doing it because they're "tired" or some other lame excuse, but they think they deserve to win and therefore it's okay if they save some effort and get the computer to do it because they would have seen those moves anyway. This is usually the same type of person who watches live games with engine analysis and acts like they understand the position better than the 2700+ rated GMs who are playing.

Thanks, I agree with your analysis. In essence it's a personality disorder and the cheater cannot tell the difference between genuine achievement and cheated achievement as long as the resulting praise is the same.

Eh, passing judgement like that seems lazy and inaccurate. I'm sure they know the difference. They may even regret cheating. Only a few are going to be totally immoral nasty people.

I would expect those who regret their cheating to not repeat it.

swarminglocusts

Jul 6, 2017

0

#28

my culture and many first world cultures value success and prodigyism and greatness so much there is extreme pressure to get to the top no matter the means necessary. I was sucked into that culture, but am proudly living life to a better means and with more freedom.

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#29

I meant to say it's less fun to lose than to cheat"

Really?

CookedQueen

Jul 6, 2017

0

#30

seasideman wrote:

Interesting. So you think they are able to somehow ignore the knowledge that they are cheats since others don't know they are cheats?

actually not my thinking, just a common psychological behavioral pattern trying to be better than other people, better car, bigger house, etc. Achieving that some people use wildest things, cheating is just one of it. A neighbor with a bigger house, a more polished car is more impressive to most people. If he paid for all this or owned by a bank people don't know. If someone has cheated people don't know for sure.

cepwin

Jul 6, 2017

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#31

In my personal view cheating makes the win meaningless....I mean the cheater knows they didn't really win (aside from the fact it's wrong to cheat.)

seasideman

Jul 6, 2017

0

#32

lovebecause wrote:

my culture and many first world cultures value success and prodigyism and greatness so much there is extreme pressure to get to the top no matter the means necessary. I was sucked into that culture, but am proudly living life to a better means and with more freedom.

Very good point, thanks. Unfortunately for the cheater though, their methods can only work in this one limited arena.

VintagePawn

Jul 6, 2017

0

#33

Discussions of cheating, potential cheating or cheat detection are not allowed on the general forums. If you would like to have that discussion, join the following group.

https://www.chess.com/club/cheating-forum

Chess.com takes cheating very seriously:

https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-com-fair-play-and-cheat-detection

https://support.chess.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1444879-fair-play-on-chess-com-what-you-need-to-know

To report a suspected cheater to the Support team, please select Report Abuse under the Help menu, or use this link: https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/emails/new. All reports are investigated, even if there is no immediate visible action.

BetweenTheWheels

Jul 6, 2017

0

#34

Some do it because they enjoy having the illusion of being superior to other people. But a lot of times their mouth is what gets them in trouble, because they can't resist being the center of attention. And often the gap between their theoretical knowledge and their rating is telling.

I remember years ago on a correspondence-only chess site I used to play on, there was a player who had a rating in the 1900s. Anyway, someone posted a thread to the effect of "Could I have won this?" and in the position, he had an extra pawn but it was opposite-colored bishops and no other pieces. Myself and a couple of other mid-level players looked at the game, and we all concluded it should be drawn if both sides play perfectly. Actually, it would likely be a draw if both sides played far from perfectly, as well. There was just so little that either side could do. Well, here comes Mr. 1900 into the thread: "Why did you agree to draw?!?! You were a pawn ahead! Why didn't you play to WIN?!?!?" He was adamant and refused to accept that it was drawn, and I ended up proving it to him by setting up the position and playing it out with him having the superior side. I was amazed that a player with that rating had no knowledge of such a basic concept. It came as no surprise to anyone when, a few weeks later, he was found to be an engine user and banned from the site.

I have no idea why someone would want to convince a bunch of virtual strangers that they're much better at a certain activity than they actually are, when they gain no benefit from it. People have tried to cheat at online poker, and at least the motivation for that is clear.