What to do when both sides have everything defended?

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Javilo

I am at a loss of what to do when both sides have everything defended.

Would appreciate any ideas  about what to do in such a position.

Elly69

just don't make a move first..some players wait for you to make a move first then play from the move you made. just make a common move like playing arpund with a queen or a king.

jjupiter6

Let's speak plainly. Shuffling your king or queen around hoping something happens is absurd. If there are no weaknesses, look for ways to make them. A tactical exchange could open up possibilities.

markyboy1974

Advance some pawns. The bigger area you control, the smaller area your opponent controls. They then need to do something just to keep using a turn. You will find a hole in their armour as their ability to move pieces becomes limited

The_Vedge

Could you elaborate? When you say everything is defended, do you mean that there are no undefended pieces? Do you perhaps have some sample games in mind?

I know I went through a phase myself where I'd often feel stumped, because until then I had more or less only won games by short term tactics, punishing blunders and such, and my opponents where getting better and blundering way less often.

Assuming that's the case with you, I suggest looking into chess strategy. I think looking into pawn structure would be especially useful. Chess.com (IIRC) has a nice series on it on YouTube.

Another thing you could try could be applying pressure to the enemy king, maybe? Perhaps set up a battery. Even if you opponent defends, they might end up creating a weakness in the process.

Javilo
The_Vedge wrote:

Could you elaborate? When you say everything is defended, do you mean that there are no undefended pieces? Do you perhaps have some sample games in mind?

I know I went through a phase myself where I'd often feel stumped, because until then I had more or less only won games by short term tactics, punishing blunders and such, and my opponents where getting better and blundering way less often.

Assuming that's the case with you, I suggest looking into chess strategy. I think looking into pawn structure would be especially useful. Chess.com (IIRC) has a nice series on it on YouTube.

Another thing you could try could be applying pressure to the enemy king, maybe? Perhaps set up a battery. Even if you opponent defends, they might end up creating a weakness in the process.

 

Javilo

Yes, thats what I mean. Specifically there are no undefended pieces and no weak squares

for either side. These are the positions where I don't know what to do.

llamonade2
Javilo wrote:

Yes, thats what I mean. Specifically there are no undefended pieces and no weak squares

for either side. These are the positions where I don't know what to do.

I assume you don't just mean things are defended but the position is also really equal and doesn't offer a clear plan like attacking the enemy king.

What you do is work to improve your piece activity though various methods like repositioning pieces, trading off your weaker pieces, changing the pawn structure, or playing pawn breaks, stuff like that. Pawn breaks is an important one, I probably shouldn't have listed it last tongue.png

If the position is very dry and equal then sometimes long term plans are not possible. You just do short term improvements. If your pieces and structure are slightly better then you'll have chances to win in the endgame. So just plod along, and be on the lookout for ways the opponent can get active too.

llamonade2

But if you're still pretty new to chess, the feeling of not knowing what to do is really common, and most of the time there are good ideas in those positions but you don't know about them yet... but we can't talk about those unless you post an example.

blueemu

"What to do when both sides have everything defended"... it sounds to me like you have the wrong idea about advantages in chess.

You don't gain the advantage by attacking. Just the opposite... you attack BECAUSE you already have the advantage. You gain the advantage by maneuver, and cash that advantage in by attacking.

You might profit from reading a bit of GM Larry Evans ideas on static analysis and creating a middle game plan. Here's a thread where I discuss it, with some example games:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/gm-larry-evans-method-of-static-analysis

ANOK1

pick up your knight find the most annoying pawn and sacrifice your knight  in other words play like tal 

Neptune21

Sacrifice the piece that gives you the greatest advantage.

The_Vedge

Do you feel you got the kind of answers you were looking for?

kindaspongey

Here are some reading possibilities that I often mention:
Simple Attacking Plans by Fred Wilson (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708090402/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review874.pdf
http://dev.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Simple-Attacking-Plans-77p3731.htm
Logical Chess: Move by Move by Irving Chernev (1957)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104437/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/logichess.pdf
The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played by Irving Chernev (1965)
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/most-instructive-games-of-chess-ever-played/
Winning Chess by Irving Chernev and Fred Reinfeld (1948)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093415/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review919.pdf
Back to Basics: Tactics by Dan Heisman (2007)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708233537/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review585.pdf
https://www.chess.com/article/view/book-review-back-to-basics-tactics
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5856bd64ff7c50433c3803db/t/5895fc0ca5790af7895297e4/1486224396755/btbtactics2excerpt.pdf

4g6663

Not to hijack the thread but any recommendationa would be appreciated in a situation like this:

 
I am very new to chess and attempting to systematically learn by playing different 'styles.' i took a defensive approach to this game and tried to take as much board control from the start. (the move order may be wrong but i was simply trying to recreate the current place in the game. Both the computer and I seem vert turtled up and I am not sure how one would move forward from here. the computer was shuffling his queen but then i did the same and he moved his rook to a6 and knight to b8, I simply dont see any avenues of approach at the moment. I feel like i have to start planning four moves ahead but dont know where to start.
 
thanks

 

TheHarbingerOfDoom
That’s an odd position. Going to have to force an exchange but both kings are quite exposed. Black to move, think I would look at horse on f7 to e5
Laskersnephew
Javilo wrote:

Yes, thats what I mean. Specifically there are no undefended pieces and no weak squares

for either side. These are the positions where I don't know what to do.

As you improve, you will reach these positions more often, because you and your opponent are both playing decent chess and not blundering anything. I won't kid you, this is where the game gets a bit harder--think of it as reaching another level. It's hard to give general advice, but one thing you can do is to see if you can improve your pieces: look for your worst-placed piece and think if you can find a more effective square. And see if you can put your rooks on good files. 

If you're up for a book, I would suggest Irving Chernev's "The Most Instructive Games ever Played."

Dsmith42
4g6663 wrote:

Not to hijack the thread but any recommendationa would be appreciated in a situation like this:

 
I am very new to chess and attempting to systematically learn by playing different 'styles.' i took a defensive approach to this game and tried to take as much board control from the start. (the move order may be wrong but i was simply trying to recreate the current place in the game. Both the computer and I seem vert turtled up and I am not sure how one would move forward from here. the computer was shuffling his queen but then i did the same and he moved his rook to a6 and knight to b8, I simply dont see any avenues of approach at the moment. I feel like i have to start planning four moves ahead but dont know where to start.
 
thanks

 

18. ..Nfd8! reveals a bishop attack on the unprotected pawn on b3, providing the tempo needed to maneuver to e6 (attacking white's good bishop) then g7, ready to support a pawn thrust to h5.  There are weaknesses in just about any position, you just need to take the time to find them.

4g6663
TheHarbingerOfDoom wrote:
That’s an odd position. Going to have to force an exchange but both kings are quite exposed. Black to move, think I would look at horse on f7 to e5

this knight was the move i took (admittedly with some help from a coworker who gave me some advice to get the game rolling again), i think that was the best way to get the ball rolling with the least positional sacrifice.

4g6663
Dsmith42 wrote:
4g6663 wrote:

Not to hijack the thread but any recommendationa would be appreciated in a situation like this:

 
I am very new to chess and attempting to systematically learn by playing different 'styles.' i took a defensive approach to this game and tried to take as much board control from the start. (the move order may be wrong but i was simply trying to recreate the current place in the game. Both the computer and I seem vert turtled up and I am not sure how one would move forward from here. the computer was shuffling his queen but then i did the same and he moved his rook to a6 and knight to b8, I simply dont see any avenues of approach at the moment. I feel like i have to start planning four moves ahead but dont know where to start.
 
thanks

 

18. ..Nfd8! reveals a bishop attack on the unprotected pawn on b3, providing the tempo needed to maneuver to e6 (attacking white's good bishop) then g7, ready to support a pawn thrust to h5.  There are weaknesses in just about any position, you just need to take the time to find them.

i didnt even see that, shoot. Ill have to check my game when I go back to it to see if thats still a prevailing threat. Thanks for the input, definitely eye opening to some of the plans and positioning thats present in chess.