What would be the rating of a top chess player in the late 1800s today

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batgirl

So, What Would Be the Ratings of Top Contemporary Players if They Were Born in the 1800s?

kco
Magikstone wrote:

America for one is not producing much grandmasters.  Our kids are giving up chess as soon as they hit their peak.  Most of these kids won't even get a rating above 2000 by the time they peak.  Something is seriously wrong with how we are teaching kids chess.  We need to revolutionize how we are teaching chess to kids.  It's great that Kamsky became a grandmaster, but I doubt children will be able to become as good following the same path he did.

 

I repeat, you cannot get better by simply seeing how other strong players play.  As much as you would like to play like Kasparov, no one will ever be able to imitate him, his ideas cannot be copied, it is useless to study the art of another.  Maybe that's why our children are not progressing at chess.  I've seen some get lucky and get to 2300, but most stagnate at a much lower rating.  

You guys need my method.  You think playing 20 games of blitz a day is going to make you stronger?  Yes, practice makes perfect, but not when it comes to chess.  You can play 3000 games, your rating will still remain the same.  Many years could pass, and you'll still find yourself playing the same opponents at your local club, having the same chess.com rating you did ten years ago.

The solution is simple.  It's not about quantity, it's about quality.  Do not study end games, study the beauty of your own art, you are a creator, you are an artist, learn to paint using your own tools.  Study your own games and only your own games.  With the assistance of a computer, see for yourself how the game could have been like if you would have tried a different move, a different plan, a different idea.  Learn from your games, make your games count.  I learn a lot just from one game of mine, then players do playing 300 games.  Because they are not learning anything from their games.  They just keep playing hoping to improve.

But if you are serious about improving, you must discover the kind of chess player you are.  For many years I've been playing both e4 and d4, black would then play a variety of things, and I would lose my games.  As black, I would get crushed.  But I found out my favorite opening.  The King's Indian Attack.  I feel more confident as chess player.  And with black I play either the dutch or the sicilian, and now I can at least hold my own.  In all of my openings, I know what I am looking for, I know how I would like to steer the game.  If all I did was play and play and play with no computer aid, I would not be able to see what I could have done, and hence, I would not really learn anything.  By not learning you're just setting yourself to be the same rating year after year.  But if you can learn something from every game you play, your intuition will be sharpened, your subconcious will have memorized tons of patterns, and basically that is what it means to improve.

Magikstone

Yeah, keep thinking you can imitate another man's tool.

Eseles
Magikstone wrote:

 another man's tool.

you mean like... a computer program?

Wink

Magikstone

I mean, his winning methods.  You cannot imitate another person's bread and butter even if you were to study his games 5 hours a day.

chessweb101

74 minutes ago · Quote · Edit · Delete · #517 chessweb101

Remember,Magikstone, there is a difference between studying the gm's game and just looking at it. There games are chess, and their ideas are chess ideas. For example, if a grandmaster plays aggressively in an opposite color bishop middlegame, you can study that. Or you could see how they played a certain room endgame. You could read a book that uses a grandmasters game as an example. I have studied grandmasters games and myself am over 2100. Sure I didn't just study grandmasters games, I also study tactics,playing games, etc..

Also, the scholastic chess in America is quite strong. I don't think you realize how strong it is. 14 year olds are 2500s.

Again, magikstone, I don't think you have the right to comment about how to improve. You haven't mastered the game yet. How could you possibly say that you won't get to expert level by studying grandmaster games if you aren't an expert. You can't. You don't know what it takes to.Im not trying to be offensive, it's just that logically your argument doesn't work. For example, I couldn't comment on how to improve to 2400.

Magikstone

Because ever since I've been using my method, my rating has rose over 150 points in a span of a month.  And my chess.com rating has rose over 150 points too in less than a month.  As I rise, it will all be thanks to my method.  And no way in hell I will study a grandmaster, when even grandmasters who play the dutch, like hikaru nakamura, do so in a way that is not pleasing to me at all.  No one plays the dutch like I do, so I have no one to rely one, no one to consult with, except of course, my trusty fritz program.  So, how long have you stayed at 2100?  Why can't you reach 2300?  Exactly, your method is not working.

5iegbert_7arrasch

I really can't believe you're for real. Seriously, are you that thick?

Pulpofeira

I suggest to ignore him. You are wasting your time here.

Pulpofeira

Chessweb's method leads him/her to 2100, but clearly is not working.

DrCheckevertim
Magikstone wrote:

America for one is not producing much grandmasters.  Our kids are giving up chess as soon as they hit their peak.  Most of these kids won't even get a rating above 2000 by the time they peak.  Something is seriously wrong with how we are teaching kids chess.  We need to revolutionize how we are teaching chess to kids.  It's great that Kamsky became a grandmaster, but I doubt children will be able to become as good following the same path he did.

 

I repeat, you cannot get better by simply seeing how other strong players play.  As much as you would like to play like Kasparov, no one will ever be able to imitate him, his ideas cannot be copied, it is useless to study the art of another.  Maybe that's why our children are not progressing at chess.  I've seen some get lucky and get to 2300, but most stagnate at a much lower rating.  

You guys need my method.  You think playing 20 games of blitz a day is going to make you stronger?  Yes, practice makes perfect, but not when it comes to chess.  You can play 3000 games, your rating will still remain the same.  Many years could pass, and you'll still find yourself playing the same opponents at your local club, having the same chess.com rating you did ten years ago.

The solution is simple.  It's not about quantity, it's about quality.  Do not study end games, study the beauty of your own art, you are a creator, you are an artist, learn to paint using your own tools.  Study your own games and only your own games.  With the assistance of a computer, see for yourself how the game could have been like if you would have tried a different move, a different plan, a different idea.  Learn from your games, make your games count.  I learn a lot just from one game of mine, then players do playing 300 games.  Because they are not learning anything from their games.  They just keep playing hoping to improve.

But if you are serious about improving, you must discover the kind of chess player you are.  For many years I've been playing both e4 and d4, black would then play a variety of things, and I would lose my games.  As black, I would get crushed.  But I found out my favorite opening.  The King's Indian Attack.  I feel more confident as chess player.  And with black I play either the dutch or the sicilian, and now I can at least hold my own.  In all of my openings, I know what I am looking for, I know how I would like to steer the game.  If all I did was play and play and play with no computer aid, I would not be able to see what I could have done, and hence, I would not really learn anything.  By not learning you're just setting yourself to be the same rating year after year.  But if you can learn something from every game you play, your intuition will be sharpened, your subconcious will have memorized tons of patterns, and basically that is what it means to improve.

 

I study education. The fact is, in all fields, you learn from looking at other peoples' ideas in addition to your own.

 

There is nothing objectionable about learning from your own games. Many masters recommend that very strategy. Often in addition to looking at master games.

 

Can you get above 2000 by only reviewing your own games? Most likely.

Is it the only way, or the best way without supplementing other methods?

No.

Is there one set strategy that will work for everyone?

Absolutely not.

 

Another consideration you have not made is that not everyone's goal is to keep getting better at chess. Not everyone wants to be a master or professional or even an expert. I honestly don't care about efficiency, I just do whatever is fun in my spare time. Most chess players are amateurs and probably don't see themselves as anything more.

TheOldReb
Magikstone wrote:

America for one is not producing much grandmasters.  Our kids are giving up chess as soon as they hit their peak.  Most of these kids won't even get a rating above 2000 by the time they peak.  Something is seriously wrong with how we are teaching kids chess.  We need to revolutionize how we are teaching chess to kids.  It's great that Kamsky became a grandmaster, but I doubt children will be able to become as good following the same path he did.

 

I repeat, you cannot get better by simply seeing how other strong players play.  As much as you would like to play like Kasparov, no one will ever be able to imitate him, his ideas cannot be copied, it is useless to study the art of another.  Maybe that's why our children are not progressing at chess.  I've seen some get lucky and get to 2300, but most stagnate at a much lower rating.  

You guys need my method.  You think playing 20 games of blitz a day is going to make you stronger?  Yes, practice makes perfect, but not when it comes to chess.  You can play 3000 games, your rating will still remain the same.  Many years could pass, and you'll still find yourself playing the same opponents at your local club, having the same chess.com rating you did ten years ago.

The solution is simple.  It's not about quantity, it's about quality.  Do not study end games, study the beauty of your own art, you are a creator, you are an artist, learn to paint using your own tools.  Study your own games and only your own games.  With the assistance of a computer, see for yourself how the game could have been like if you would have tried a different move, a different plan, a different idea.  Learn from your games, make your games count.  I learn a lot just from one game of mine, then players do playing 300 games.  Because they are not learning anything from their games.  They just keep playing hoping to improve.

But if you are serious about improving, you must discover the kind of chess player you are.  For many years I've been playing both e4 and d4, black would then play a variety of things, and I would lose my games.  As black, I would get crushed.  But I found out my favorite opening.  The King's Indian Attack.  I feel more confident as chess player.  And with black I play either the dutch or the sicilian, and now I can at least hold my own.  In all of my openings, I know what I am looking for, I know how I would like to steer the game.  If all I did was play and play and play with no computer aid, I would not be able to see what I could have done, and hence, I would not really learn anything.  By not learning you're just setting yourself to be the same rating year after year.  But if you can learn something from every game you play, your intuition will be sharpened, your subconcious will have memorized tons of patterns, and basically that is what it means to improve.

chessweb101
Magikstone, your argument that my method doesn't work because I'm not 2300 doesn't work. I could ask you why you aren't 2300. I improved my game to 2100 by studying some games of grandmasters. That's not the only thing I did however it did help. I have also gone up from 1100 to 1600 in 7 months before. I studied grandmaster's games. Point is, it helps if if you can't believe it. You are not an appropriate level to say that studying grandmaster games is good or bad to help your chess skills.
Ziryab
batgirl wrote:

So, What Would Be the Ratings of Top Contemporary Players if They Were Born in the 1800s?

Magnus Carlsen would not have a rating.

chyss
batgirl wrote:

So, What Would Be the Ratings of Top Contemporary Players if They Were Born in the 1800s?

That's difficult because there weren't any ratings back then. However, assuming that Morphy et al were about 2200 then it would be tough to get over about 2500ish I guess. Once you're about 300-400 points over someone it's hard to gain many points by playing them. 

Magikstone

You're right.  My method is something recent.  As I keep soaring, it will convince me even more that my method is the correct one.  You can say you improved by studying grandmaster games, the truth is, I bet out of all the games you have played, you have not once employed a strategy you saw a grandmaster do against another grandmaster.  I don't know why players keep giving credit to grandmasters for improving, when clearly if you were to show me your games, all of the strategies you have been using were not coppied by someone else's strategy, but they came from your own thinking mind.  It was not studying other people's games that helped you improved, it was your own rational mind that makes its own decisions.  There is no one who plays like you other then you.  Even guys who play the same openings as you will steer the game off with different types of moves.  We all have our preferences, grandmasters had there's.  There is absoutely nothing you can learn from any strong player other then a knowledge of their style.  Which may be interesting to know but will not actually help you improve.

You may be higher rating then me, but it is dishonesty on your part to credit things not responsible for you reaching 2100.  Not even studying tactics have helped you improve your game.  If you studied a lot of tactics, all you have is information that will never be used in real life.  The only thing responsible for me reaching 1600 and you 2100 was your natural chess intelligence.  But if you are not cultivating your chess intelligence, or if you are using the wrong approach, there will be no improvement on your part.  If you do not want to improve then obviously you won't.  I have been a class c player all my life.  I've been a 1400 chess.com blitz player all my life.  With my recent method, I am a now a class B player, and my chess blitz rating is 1700.  I can crush 1600's on chess.com easily, whereas before I struggled so hard against mere 1500's.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

"You cannot become a real chess player without a serious study of the chess classics"-Arthur Yusupov, School of Future Champions 1, page 65

"As a trainer I am primarily concerned with the practical results of my pupils.  Therefore a study of the classics is primarily of interest from the standpoint of the practical player"-Shereshevsky, School of Future Champions 1, page 93

"All chess players study old games-rather as they learn the words of a foreign language.  But after aquiring it you have to learn to use it to meet your creative potential."-Garry Kasparov,

MuhammadAreez10

???

5iegbert_7arrasch
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

"You cannot become a real chess player without a serious study of the chess classics"-Arthur Yusupov, School of Future Champions 1, page 65

"As a trainer I am primarily concerned with the practical results of my pupils.  Therefore a study of the classics is primarily of interest from the standpoint of the practical player"-Shereshevsky, School of Future Champions 1, page 93

"All chess players study old games-rather as they learn the words of a foreign language.  But after aquiring it you have to learn to use it to meet your creative potential."-Garry Kasparov,

Exectly right. How can studying the classics not make you a better player?

"Discovering truth by building on previous discoveries".

Isaac Newton: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

SilentKnighte5
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

"You cannot become a real chess player without a serious study of the chess classics"-Arthur Yusupov, School of Future Champions 1, page 65

He never trained with a computer so what does he know?