What would be the rating of a top chess player in the late 1800s today

Sort:
Justs99171
patzermike wrote:

Well, everybody who knew Lasker and Capa said they didn't study much. Probably they studied some, but they were not workaholics like Alekhine and Fischer.

I read that Capablanca studied 10,000 rook endgames while in college.

Justs99171
patzermike wrote:

I agree that players now are simply better than the greats of the past. To clarify my view, I think that Lasker or Capa would, today have medium GM strength. They would lose to Carlsen or Vishy or Caruana or Nakamura or any top level modern GM.

Magikstone wrote:

What it comes down to is this.  The current top 20 players in the world as of right now using FIDE ratings, these grandmasters would beat Morphy, Steinitz, Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Botvitnik, Petrosian, Spassky, Fischer, Karpov, and the great Kasparov.  Anyone who denies that chess players are stronger thanks to computers is failing to understand the progress chess continues to make on a yearly basis.  

Capalanca's understanding of chess was flawed. Petrosian conceded a lot of space and that is supposedly why he lost that 2nd match to Spassky. Lasker had a deep understanding, even by today's standards. So did Alekhine. With some of these past players, the only hole would be modern opening prep.

Now Kasparov losing to today's players? That is idiotic crap. Even with rating inflation, he has the 2nd highest rating ever. If that guy came back today, he would be a top 10 player. Karpov's old peak rating would even put him in the top 10.

The current top 20 players beating Kasparov, Karpov and Fischer? Totally idiotic. Here are their peak ratings: 2851, 2780, and 2785 ... just go to 2700chess.com and you see that those three ratings, which are not inflated, would place them in the top 10 on an inflated list! Kasparov at number 2! If you think Wojtaszek and Jakavenko would beat Kasparov, Karpov, or Fishcer in a match, you are hardcore stupid or out of your mind.

Magikstone

Jakavenko would certainly beat Karpov and Fischer.  His understanding of chess is much superior.  As to Kasparov, it get's trickier.  But you have to understand,  Kasparov retired precisely because he knew he would stand less of a chance against men who are assisted by computers.  It's hard to how Kasparov would have fared against his contemporaries if he would have continued, just as it is hard to know who would have won, Karpov or Fischer.  But believe me, the strength of Kasparov right before he retired against Jakavenko... believe me, Jakavenko would prove too much for him.  That's not stupidity, that's just the reality of how computers have helped out the grandmasters.  Every modern grandmaster is a cyborg.

DrCheckevertim

You sure know a lot about grandmaster play for someone who is rated 1678 USCF. Ok, I'll just believe you.

Magikstone

Actually my rating is 1788 USCF.  You don't have to believe me, ask any grandmaster, chess has evolved, grandmasters are more informed then ever.  Kasparov, Fischer, and Karpov, these guys stand no chance in the computer age.  These guys are cowards.  Fischer ducked Karpov, Karpov was no match for Kasparov, and Kasparov retired because he knew his time was coming to an end.  Just as Capablanca would have proven to be out of his league against Kasparov, our top modern day grandmasters would prove to be too much against anyone else.  The only grandmaster that deserves a lot of credit, is Magnus Carlsen.

adumbrate

I am pretty sure alot of the grandmasters should have some credit you know, as they made the fundemental ideas of chess which will always apply

fabelhaft

"These guys are cowards. Fischer ducked Karpov, Karpov was no match for Kasparov, and Kasparov retired because he knew his time was coming to an end"

So Karpov is a coward because he lost to Kasparov, who is a coward because he retired after 20+ years as #1?

Justs99171
Magikstone wrote:

Jakavenko would certainly beat Karpov and Fischer.  His understanding of chess is much superior.  As to Kasparov, it get's trickier.  But you have to understand,  Kasparov retired precisely because he knew he would stand less of a chance against men who are assisted by computers.  It's hard to how Kasparov would have fared against his contemporaries if he would have continued, just as it is hard to know who would have won, Karpov or Fischer.  But believe me, the strength of Kasparov right before he retired against Jakavenko... believe me, Jakavenko would prove too much for him.  That's not stupidity, that's just the reality of how computers have helped out the grandmasters.  Every modern grandmaster is a cyborg.

You're a total idiot. Your idiocy is appalling. Kasparov's rating in 1999 was 2851. After 16 years of rating inflation, that is still good enough to be ranked number 2 today and still higher than Jakovenko. Kasparov's final rating 10 years ago was 2812, much higher than Jakovenko's rating ever was. Jakovenko's inflated rating of today is still lower than Kasparov's 10 year old rating.

yureesystem

Magikstone wrote:  Just as Capablanca would have proven to be out of his league against Kasparov, our top modern day grandmasters would prove to be too much against anyone else.  The only grandmaster that deserves a lot of credit, is Magnus Carlsen. 

 

 

 How do you know Capablanca could not compete against the modern GMs and where is your prove? I reading some your ridiculous past posting, one them you don't have to calculate. You dead wrong, that what make strong player the ability to calculate accurate and assess a position correctly. When you say it has been proven bring some real evidence and not your opinions.

SmyslovFan

You claim there is rating inflation, but there's no proof of it whatsoever. 

How's this: What has been the annual rate of inflation in chess ratings, and what has caused it?

Meanwhile, Jakovenko's highest rating was 2760, which is lower than Fischer, Karpov or Kasparov at their best. So yeah, I'd pick all three world champions over Jakovenko. 

You claim that Karpov was "no match" for Kasparov. Actually, he was a fantastic match for Kasparov! The two players learned a great deal from each other and improved dramatically thanks to their matches. As great as Kasparov was (second best ever), he improved because he had to hone his skills against a great technician in Karpov. 

To sum up:

  • you talk about rating inflation even though statisticians have shown there is no such thing. Players are just getting better over time. 
  • You talk about Jakovenko as if he was better than Karpov or Fischer yet there is no evidence to show this to be true (unless you believe there is substantial rating deflation)
  • You show ignorance of the history of Kasparov and Karpov and how they improved each other in perhaps the greatest rivalry chess has ever seen
SmyslovFan

Btw, I've heard different numbers for the number of Rook endings Capablanca supposedly studied. Whatever the number was, Fischer's comment is still on point: If he really studied all those endgames, he studied the wrong ones!

Capa's legendary endgame technique was most evident in simplified middle games and complex endgames where he could reduce positions to won games before his opponents were even thinking about the endgame! His technical skill was great, but he probably wasn't even the best endgame technician of his time (Rubinstein was probably better in purely technical endgames).

yureesystem

SmylovFan wrote:  Actually, he was a fantastic match for Kasparov! The two players learned a great deal from each other and improved dramatically thanks to their matches. As great as Kasparov was (second best ever), he improved because he had to hone his skills against a great technician in Karpov.  

 

   It is true, Karpov played well in the matches agaainst Kasparov, so well that Kasparov had only one point advantage over 150 match games; that is a testimony to Karpov greatness. My favorite match was their 1990, a real fighting match!!  

yureesystem

@SmylovFan, Capablanca endgame was amazing, wiinning position that most strong master would took a draw gladlt. Here one position he wins a difficult endgame, for me it made great impression and became a Capa fan.

White: Capablanca Black: Yates  Hasting 1930/31 

     

 I was so impress that Capablanca won and decided I must study the endgame so I can score more points or know how to draw theoretical positions.

SilentKnighte5
Magikstone wrote:

 But you have to understand,  Kasparov retired precisely because he knew he would stand less of a chance against men who are assisted by computers. 

Kasparov was on the cutting edge of computer use in his time.

SilentKnighte5
fabelhaft wrote:

"These guys are cowards. Fischer ducked Karpov, Karpov was no match for Kasparov, and Kasparov retired because he knew his time was coming to an end"

 

So Karpov is a coward because he lost to Kasparov, who is a coward because he retired after 20+ years as #1?

A real man would've gone for 50 years of #1.

millionairesdaughter

there is one solution to the problems of chess players and that is to stop thinking.

TheOldReb
Magikstone wrote:

 YActually my rating is 1788 USCF. ou don't have to believe me, ask any grandmaster, chess has evolved, grandmasters are more informed then ever.  Kasparov, Fischer, and Karpov, these guys stand no chance in the computer age.  These guys are cowards.  Fischer ducked Karpov, Karpov was no match for Kasparov, and Kasparov retired because he knew his time was coming to an end.  Just as Capablanca would have proven to be out of his league against Kasparov, our top modern day grandmasters would prove to be too much against anyone else.  The only grandmaster that deserves a lot of credit, is Magnus Carlsen.

 

13224445: MARIO REATEGUI
 
Rating Supplement entries for this player since Jan. 1, 1990: 42  
  Source Regular
Rating
Quick
Rating
Blitz
Rating
Onl/Qk
Rating
Onl/Bl
Rating
Notes
  2015-03 1678 1568 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-12 1657 1560 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-10 1646 1549 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-09 1632 1526 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-08 1647 1552 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-07 1625 1515 1523 (P13) --- ---  
  2014-03 1573 1448 1523 (P13)

fissionfowl
SmyslovFan wrote:
 
"As great as Kasparov was (second best ever)"
 
Referencing Carlsen. But you need to stop with that crap, it's pointless and getting old. Relatively speaking, at his peak Fischer was the strongest of all time.
SmyslovFan

Reb, take a look at his unofficial rating. He's right. 

 


 
Events 1 thru 50:
End Date
Event ID
Event Name
Section ID and Name
Reg Rtg
Before / After
Quick Rtg
Before / After
Blitz Rtg
Before / After
2015-03-08
201503088702
WESTFIELD QUADS (NJ)
6: SECTION 6
1782 => 1788 1698 => 1703  
2015-03-01
201503015992
WESTFIELD OCTOS (NJ)
2: SECTION 2
1712 => 1782 1610 => 1698  
2015-02-22
201502222592
WESTFIELD QUADS (NJ)
5: SECTION 5
1678 => 1712 1568 => 1610  
2015-02-16
201502160752
WORLD TEAM 2015 (NJ)
1: WORLD TEAM 2015
1671 => 1678    
TheOldReb

Ok , but its not official until its on a published rating list , right ?  Either way he is still a B class player , 1600-1799 = B class