When will I stop improving?

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TheSwissPhoenix

I’ve been playing for around 2 years, but plateaued at around 1900ish after like a year and continued getting stuck at the next 100 barrier. It’s much tougher to get to titled player level rating otb rather than online, because otb is harder than online. Keep playing otb, and try to focus on that as online ratings don’t matter as much as otb ratings. 

maxkho2
nMsALpg wrote:

Weird how 2200-2350 seems to be where a lot of people who improve quickly hit a wall.

I think your range is off by around 50-100 points (I think stagnating at 2250-2450 is more common), but yeah, I don't know what it is about this range that is just so difficult to get over. Perhaps it's because that's the level at which you start to see masters, who have already done loads of studying for OTB and thus have an inherent edge over people like me who never studied? I think that should be it. Players chasing the master and/or FIDE titles have much larger of an incentive (which at this point is even partially financial) to improve their chess skill than players of any other rating (discounting higher ratings), so this explanation appears to make sense.

GMegasDoux

Law of deminishing returns. The better your results the higher your Elo. At that point you play against people with similar ability to you and a similar score. Theoretically you and the others around your level are making fewer and smaller errors so a winning result increasing your rating points is harder to come by. Once you hit the top pulling away becomes harder, which is why Magnus hasn't hit 2900.

llama36
maxkho2 wrote:
nMsALpg wrote:

Weird how 2200-2350 seems to be where a lot of people who improve quickly hit a wall.

I think your range is off by around 50-100 points (I think stagnating at 2250-2450 is more common), but yeah, I don't know what it is about this range that is just so difficult to get over. Perhaps it's because that's the level at which you start to see masters, who have already done loads of studying for OTB and thus have an inherent edge over people like me who never studied? I think that should be it. Players chasing the master and/or FIDE titles have much larger of an incentive (which at this point is even partially financial) to improve their chess skill than players of any other rating (discounting higher ratings), so this explanation appears to make sense.

Yeah, that's my guess. You start running into a higher percentage of players who have played OTB, so they've studied.

StumpyBlitzer

Yes hopefully you don't stop improving and you see some good results with study and puzzles etc. 

Duck

Everyone has their limits

TCSPlayer

Almost a year later and I see you progressed to 2300 here. Good job! But that was quite a bit slower than previous steps and somehow expected. Since opponents at this level are quite good in opening and they make much less obvious mistakes. Keep a good job!

SquareBear99
maxkho2 wrote:
Stil1 wrote:

Fast improvement. Nicely done.

Though, I wouldn't start thinking about FM/IM titles at 2200-2300 blitz, just yet.

Online blitz ratings can be a bit misleading. The only way to truly gauge your potential (if a title is what you're really wondering about) would be to play OTB Classical, as many have suggested. There's really no other reliable benchmark.

It's easy to look at 2200+ online ratings and think, "So I must be close to master strength, right?" But that's . . . often far from the truth.

Thank you! Yeah, I know 2300 Blitz and even 2300 Rapid online isn't the same as 2300 OTB. However, I can't imagine that my OTB rating would be much lower than 1900-2000. I mean, I know that OTB chess differs from online chess in a number of ways, but, at the end of the day, it's still chess. Moreover, I have always been a slow thinker in pretty much everything I do, so the slower time control should benefit me if anything.

I'm planning to finally get into OTB some time soon, so I guess we'll see what happens. I hope for my first rating to be at least 1800, and then increase that to at least 2000 when I get used to the setting (which hopefully shouldn't take more than 1-2 tournaments).

I’m not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but if you’re curious about how your chess.com would most likely correlate to an OTB FIDE rating, there’s a database that gives a side-by-side comparison of chess.com ratings and the average FIDE/USCF rating it corresponds to. It uses a pretty large sample size (1900 registered FIDE players and 1500 USCF players) and has some Lichess data as well.

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

So for your chess.com blitz rating of 2300, it’s fair to expect roughly 2200 FIDE with a margin of +/- 135 points depending on how you adjust to the OTB format. There’s no hard and fast rule to these things but I like having the data to get a better idea lol. Nice rating progress btw 👍

dude0812
maxkho2 wrote:

Ever since I picked up chess, it didn't take much for my playing strength to increase. All I had to do was play some games, watch some YouTube, and wait for a set amount of time... and then whoosh! I'm suddenly stronger by 100 elo points. I never even knew what it was that got better in my game ─ I just started beating opponents I struggled with previously and that's it. The improvement just... happened. And it still does! The only thing that changed from my beginner days is the amount of time that it takes for my rating to jump by 100 points ─ it used to take only a few days, then a week, then a couple of weeks, and now it takes about 1-2 months. But the process is exactly the same ─ I don't need to do much to get better.

The problem is, it can't go on like this forever. For example, I'm pretty sure there are no or close to no grandmasters who started playing chess as adults, and I started playing at age 20, which means that I will probably never get to grandmaster-strength. So my question to higher-rated players for whom this process of natural improvement has stopped is: when did it stop for you? When can I realistically expect it to stop for me? And once it has stopped, what will I have to do to get even better? Furthermore, what do you think the absolute upper bound is on when I will reach my equilibrium point, and what will it take to have a chance of reaching that upper bound?

For reference, at the time of posting, my rating is 2200 on chess.com, and I have never played rated OTB.

I did the exact same thing that you did and I stopped improving at 1800-1900 on this website. I am still in that rating range as you can see by my profile. At the time of posting this comment I am rated 1903 rapid and 1804 blitz on this website.

dude0812
SquareBear99 wrote:
 

I’m not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but if you’re curious about how your chess.com would most likely correlate to an OTB FIDE rating, there’s a database that gives a side-by-side comparison of chess.com ratings and the average FIDE/USCF rating it corresponds to. It uses a pretty large sample size (1900 registered FIDE players and 1500 USCF players) and has some Lichess data as well.

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

So for your chess.com blitz rating of 2300, it’s fair to expect roughly 2200 FIDE with a margin of +/- 135 points depending on how you adjust to the OTB format. There’s no hard and fast rule to these things but I like having the data to get a better idea lol. Nice rating progress btw 👍

This site always more accurately predicted my rating on lichess based on my rating on this website and vice versa. I trust this poll more. According to this website 2300 chess dot com blitz maps to around 2000 FIDE standard.

maxkho2
TCSPlayer wrote:

Almost a year later and I see you progressed to 2300 here. Good job! But that was quite a bit slower than previous steps and somehow expected. Since opponents at this level are quite good in opening and they make much less obvious mistakes. Keep a good job!

Thank you! But actually, I've now gotten to over 2400 on Lichess in both Blitz and Bullet. I am underrated here because I haven't played here since I improved my playing strength. For sure, my progress has slowed down, but I feel like it's still there. I still have a little bit left in me... perhaps I can reach my goal of 2500-2600 (and 2200+ OTB) by the end of this year, but I think that that will be my natural ceiling. From then on, I will have to start putting in actual effort to improve. 

maxkho2
SquareBear99 wrote:
maxkho2 wrote:
Stil1 wrote:

Fast improvement. Nicely done.

Though, I wouldn't start thinking about FM/IM titles at 2200-2300 blitz, just yet.

Online blitz ratings can be a bit misleading. The only way to truly gauge your potential (if a title is what you're really wondering about) would be to play OTB Classical, as many have suggested. There's really no other reliable benchmark.

It's easy to look at 2200+ online ratings and think, "So I must be close to master strength, right?" But that's . . . often far from the truth.

Thank you! Yeah, I know 2300 Blitz and even 2300 Rapid online isn't the same as 2300 OTB. However, I can't imagine that my OTB rating would be much lower than 1900-2000. I mean, I know that OTB chess differs from online chess in a number of ways, but, at the end of the day, it's still chess. Moreover, I have always been a slow thinker in pretty much everything I do, so the slower time control should benefit me if anything.

I'm planning to finally get into OTB some time soon, so I guess we'll see what happens. I hope for my first rating to be at least 1800, and then increase that to at least 2000 when I get used to the setting (which hopefully shouldn't take more than 1-2 tournaments).

I’m not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but if you’re curious about how your chess.com would most likely correlate to an OTB FIDE rating, there’s a database that gives a side-by-side comparison of chess.com ratings and the average FIDE/USCF rating it corresponds to. It uses a pretty large sample size (1900 registered FIDE players and 1500 USCF players) and has some Lichess data as well.

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

So for your chess.com blitz rating of 2300, it’s fair to expect roughly 2200 FIDE with a margin of +/- 135 points depending on how you adjust to the OTB format. There’s no hard and fast rule to these things but I like having the data to get a better idea lol. Nice rating progress btw 👍

Thank you! Unfortunately, whatever type of regression the website that you linked uses (probably linear), it doesn't appear to be very accurate. This website also uses linear regression (which is in fact even more inaccurate), but it also gives us all the data, so we can determine the equivalences manually. Looking at the data, it seems like the average Lichess Blitz 2400 is rated around 2100 FIDE. However, most of these data points are people that are experienced both online and OTB. I, on the other hand, have only just played my first OTB tournament, and, predictably, I wasn't at my best (my OTB vision is yet to develop); as a consequence, my initial FIDE rating came out as only 1951. However, I'm sure I'll be able to improve on that as I play more OTB. 2100 FIDE seems like a realistic short-term target. Obviously, 2200 FIDE is my end-of-year goal, but I feel like I'll need to make up some ground before I can seriously think about attaining it.

llama36

Yeah, if you spend all your time playing blitz and bullet online, then it will take a while to get your OTB rating up to the same level.

"Same level" meaning, you know, 2200 FIDE is something like 2500 chess.com blitz.

Of course it also depends on how good you are at each time control. Some masters are lower rated in blitz of course.

maxkho2
llama36 wrote:

Yeah, if you spend all your time playing blitz and bullet online, then it will take a while to get your OTB rating up to the same level.

"Same level" meaning, you know, 2200 FIDE is something like 2500 chess.com blitz.

Of course it also depends on how good you are at each time control. Some masters are lower rated in blitz of course.

Well, you say that, but I've always been better at slower time controls. For example, even here, my Rapid rating is higher than my Blitz rating despite the fact that Rapid ratings are on average 100 lower at this level (I know I'm underrated in both, but these were my ratings before I improved). I think I'm a good classical player ─ I'm just not a very good OTB player just yet. That's mostly because I'm naturally a slow thinker, so the slower time controls suit the way that my brain is wired. For most people, being as good at OTB as at online blitz may mean being 2500 online and 2200 FIDE. But for me, getting "up to par" in OTB probably means 2200 FIDE and 2400 online (which I already am). So, honestly, I think it might just be a matter of getting as much OTB practice as I possibly can just to get used to the way the board looks. Still, as I said, it seems like I also have some improvement to make in addition to getting used to OTB to reach 2200 FIDE; but I will begin to actually study from September when I complete my Master's thesis. All in all, I think getting to 2200 FIDE strength (if not getting the actual 2200 rating) before the end of the year is a realistic goal.

llama36

Yeah, that's basically how it is. Get as much OTB practice as possible and your rating will go up.

IMO it's not only how the board looks, but like any new time control, you need some experience for how to pace yourself, when/why/how to speed up or slow down, that sort of thing.

Augurjaern

Same happened with me but instead of watching YouTube I became determined to beat the bot zombaru and succeeded at 600 elo and then I made a jump to 850 elo

maxkho2
Ultimate-trashtalker wrote:

See me as a live example....i am here around 2000 blitz....so i also thought like u that my rating will never be less than 1500 OTB .....but no,i was completely wrong....i ended up being a 1100.....but i Know i will get it to 1500 with more OTB games.... it's Just the experience.....if u have played 30 OTB tournament and reach a rating,that is definitely going to be close to ur original strength

Well, in my case, my guess of a 1900-2000 initial rating was spot on: my initial FIDE rating was 1952, and my initial national rating was 2026. I have since dropped both of those ratings slightly (due to playing a few underrated opponents - I'm slowly but surely getting both my ratings back up), but both are still within the range that I originally predicted.

maxkho2
Amber54623 wrote:

Same happened with me but instead of watching YouTube I became determined to beat the bot zombaru and succeeded at 600 elo and then I made a jump to 850 elo

So... what exactly about our situation is "the same"?

Augurjaern

It's same because I said I didn't watch a lot but still it's a part

Augurjaern

But forgot to write a didn't saw a lot of YouTube