White should win or draw ALWAYS when ____________

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Avatar of lebronjames6

I have been frusterated through all my experiences playing against the sicilian defense, especially that pesky najdorf variation, i tried the futile morra gambit, the kan, but none actually work, then i read multiple books on theory and opening books on how to beat a sicilian system, but yet there hasnt been an answer..., but lately i've been thinking; why is the sicilian WITH PERFECT play from BOTH SIDES, always favor black: black controls all perpetual draws, and notable dynamic positions, but something else really bugs me about it:

Should not white ALWAYS atleast draw, with PERFECT play, lets think logically about this, starting with step 1, the person who moves first......, should not he/she always win or draw, does it really make sense for black to win, when white plays perfectly? this has really bugged me for the last week........

so my perfect example would be the sicilian najdorf, where black does get alot of the chances, which leads back to why?, i think it has to do with an innacuracy very early from white, we may not discover the answer to chess in the next 10 years, but i can tell you this about the sicilian najdorf: what we know as book/main line moves from white, cant be the BEST and PERFECT moves, if black gets so much play, now this may be a personal bias, but this is unacceptable to see black suceed (no racism intended) with such force, so i say to you again 2 things

shouldn't white get a draw/win EVERY single time WITH PERFECT play?

the sicilian najdorf: why does it favor black more than white?, i mean i know why, but shouldnt all chess games favor white more than black, with perfect play that is ;)

Avatar of MrNimzoIndian

I think you're on the road to chess wisdom and also adopting the Sicilian yourself ! :-) I gave up the 1e4 as white and adopted 1...c5 against 1e4 in my OTB games and my grade rocketed....

I think the reason for the Sicilian's resilience is it's central pawn majority.

Avatar of onetwentysix

I got an idea, play d4, c4, g3, or Nf3

Avatar of orangehonda

Both the chessgames.com opening explorer and my chessbase 9 give the stats after 5...a6 as favoring white (only a little, but there it is).  So I'm not sure what you're going on and on about ?

Avatar of BigTy

The Najdorf is certainly good, but it doesn't favour black more than white. Please give me an example of "perfect play" so we can see what you are talking about. I'd love to see black win in a perfectly played game in any opening...

Avatar of Elubas

"shouldn't white get a draw/win EVERY single time WITH PERFECT play?"

Kind of goes without saying.

"the sicilian najdorf: why does it favor black more than white?, i mean i know why, but shouldnt all chess games favor white more than black, with perfect play that is ;)"

Did you really refute white's game in every single line of the sicilian, or is it that you have bad experience against it?  I definitely think that it's black who needs to prove equality, not the other way around. It's an involved opening though; you have to know what you're doing, and if you really don't want to take the time to figure that out, you can either play an anti sicilian, or play something that isn't e4.

Avatar of Vek_The_Gambiteer

Erm, why all the concern around perfect play? No one plays perfectly. Not Kasparov, not Carlsen, not Rybka. Saying 'White should get a draw with perfect play' is all well and good but remember that Chess isn't solved (And more to the point, even if it was solved in theory no one would have enough memory to know all 10^120 potential board positions and their forced draws - So who cares?). 

Incidentally, if you want to learn more about beating the Najdorf, sign up for the Chess.com university course (http://www.chess.com/groups/view/dont-fear-the-sicilian). You know you want to master the English Attack against the Najdorf : D (Not to mention the Yugoslav against the Dragon! Sac, sac, mate!!)

Avatar of Cipherz

Yeah, I love playing the Najdorf as black and when I first started using it I was crushed a couple times right out of the beginning. In my experience it takes a lot of practice and reading theory to do well as it can lead to some very sharp mid games.

Avatar of -X-

White should win or draw ALWAYS when ____________ ...

I am white.

Avatar of Vek_The_Gambiteer

"When I am White I win because I am White. When I am Black I win because I am Bogoljubov." : P

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efim_Bogoljubov)

Avatar of Baldr

With perfect play, I don' t think it matters what color you are, you should always win.  Because whoever is playing the other side isn't going to play perfect.

If the sicilian causes you that much trouble as white, perhaps you should open with a queens pawn.

Avatar of collinsdanielp

White can maintain the advantage against the Najdorf, and perfect play would always yeild at least a draw.

I think a lot of chess players go through this with the sicilian.  I did.  You lose to it, then adopt it, then learn how its beaten, and then can beat it.  Its frustrating, but thats chess. 

My suggestion is to play the open sicilian english attack as white (these are the main lines for a reason).  Push d4 on move 3, put a knight on c3 and your darksquared bishop on e3, queen on d2, castle long and push pawns on the kingside.  Black almost has to castle short in the open sicilian, and your pawn push should create trouble for him before he can create trouble for you. 

Avatar of lebronjames6

all im saying is that with perfect play from both black and white, the najdorf favors black more, even if it is the slighest amount....

Avatar of Kytan

I'm not sure if we can say that though, since until perfect play is invented for chess, it's all just speculation =/.  Gonna have to look at this opening though.... it might improve my game to look into other openings than e4 from white's prespective, too. >_<

Avatar of ivandh

White should win or draw every time that black has no material left.

Avatar of lebronjames6

no duh, but with PERFECT play by both white and black, in the najdorf, black is favored slightly....

Avatar of collinsdanielp

I disagree that black has an advantage with perfect play from both sides in the najdorf.

Avatar of Hypocrism
lebronjames6 wrote:

all im saying is that with perfect play from both black and white, the najdorf favors black more, even if it is the slighest amount....


So why does white have a higher % of wins?

Avatar of lebronjames6

white never has an advantage in the najdorf, when black plays perfectly >_<

Avatar of lebronjames6

give me a link, im pretty sure the latest discoveries in the last 20 years from blacks side ensures a better winning %age as black, alot of those games were when blacks game wasnt concrete as until now....